Northern Jet Management

TexasFlyer

Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
Anyone familiar with Northern Jet Management?

They seem to be hiring and growing. 8/6 schedule. CJ3 aircraft. I think 70k for SIC and 115k for PIC per APC page. Hard to find anything out about them that's recent.

Anyone have any info about them. Great things? Ugly things? Schedule things? QOL things? Any things....
 
i think @SteveC may have some info? or maybe a different outfit
Curious since a lot of Wheels Up folks in my network are interviewing there and another friend of mine and myself too. Yet none of us can seem to find great info on them out there that's 2024 current.
 
Well, I was there for 16 years, many of them as pilot/management up through D.O.. It is, in my opinion, one of the better 135/91K/91 operators in the country, and we always had strong involvement with industry wide safety groups (usually had a board member on the Air Charter Safety Foundation for example), and we’re early adopters of ASAP and SMS. We were successful at reworking the company guidelines to properly reflect and implement Prospective Rest and fatigue mitigation.

While I was there (retired a couple of years ago now), the customer base was primarily owners, fractional owners, and card holders from the West Michigan, Chicagoland, and eastern Wisconsin areas, with little straight charter. We also opened a base in Naples, Florida and we’re building our Midwest-Florida market. We (as crew) got to know our passengers personally, and the company owner was all about treating customers well.

We would even try to keep aircraft and crews with the customers rather than squeeze in additional charter flights in the middle of, for example, a three day sit. This was good and bad. Good part was sitting in really nice locations for a couple of days rather than scrambling more flights. Bad part was that this did not maximize revenue, making it harder to get raises. During the last few years, especially when COVID was really boosting private jet travel, and sales sold more cards and fractional shares, the industry standard of trying to maximize aircraft utilization began to creep in. I don’t know how well they’re balancing that out now…

Formerly, as a mid-western based company (more on that later), we were always low pay compared to national rates. We were in a low COL area so that wasn’t as critical as it could have been, but still… Also I was always pushing (mostly unsuccessfully) to get an alternate schedule to the 8/6. When I was hired the schedule was 4/3 [edit to correct to 6/3], which I loved. As aircraft utilization increased over the years, the scheduling side of operations got the longer schedules implemented. (By that time I was doing office work as well as flying, so didn’t fly an 8/6 schedule. At the end of my time there I was actively trying to get out of the top D.O. position (I did the career change to fly, not manage people & operations again!), and when it came time to return to just flying I tried to negotiate something other than 8/6. They wouldn’t bite, so I retired instead.) Don’t take this wrong - there are many pilots that do just fine with 8/6, it just wasn’t what I wanted.

All that said, much of it might not apply so much to that CJ3 position. Not too long after I retired, Northern announced a merger with Florida based Speedbird. The CJ3 operation was a Speedbird baby. While some of the (really good) people that I know are still there (I can vouch for the current D.O.), I have not talked to people in detail to know how all the pieces are sorting out with the merger. I presume that merging two corporate cultures can be “interesting”, but from what little I heard Speedbird was not one of those stereotypical cut-rate (south) Florida 135’s, but was similar in many ways to the Northern Jet I knew. I certainly have not heard anything to give me pause, but as you well know pilot QOL is in how the details are implemented.

Bottom line: they were a good operation (top quality newer aircraft, very, very well maintained (both mechanically and cosmetically), with an industry leading safety emphasis. I can’t imagine that has changed much, but I’m not current on the situation there.
 
Last edited:
I noticed in your other post, where you were enumerating your options, you said: “…Or steady schedule making half the pay at a 135 that may work ne 14 hours nonstop all 8 days on the road, but know that comes with a decent amount of time off at my real home when not faced wirh an ugly commute with a no seniority reserve schedule.”

I will say that when I was there we worked really hard to keep pilot workload reasonable and safe. Pilot management kept an eye on the schedule daily, and crew scheduling was really receptive to us when we saw busy days stacking up for crews. I don’t remember the exact details but we put a lot of effort into giving scheduling some guidelines to reduce the chances of fatiguing schedules. We looked at factors like number of legs, daily scheduled duty time and actual duty day lengths, time zone changes, etc., and helped juggle schedules and aircraft to avoid issues. We knew that multi-leg 14 hour days are not sustainable, nor safe. I personally saw numerous occasions where the company paid for outside lift (undesirable as it was expensive, and we wanted our customers on our aircraft with our crews) when we had “legal but not smart” options in-house. Knowing the current Director of Operations I would bet that that emphasis is still there. *fingers crossed*
 
Actually it appears that I do still know a significant part of the operations management team, including the VP of Operations, the VP of Client Experience, the VP of Maintenance, the Director of Operations, the Chief pilot, and others, as well as many line pilots of course. All of those management people are solid and trustworthy and won’t blow sunshine up your skirt beyond the normal pro-company slant. They won’t lie.

Anybody you want to talk to, just let me know and I’ll try to make introductions.




Edit to add: the more I think about it, I can’t stress enough how pro-pilot that team is. The D.O. and Chief Pilot (I forgot that Peter got the job) are going to look out for the guys as well as anybody I can think of. Obviously there are other forces at play in the decision making process and I can’t predict how that plays out big-picture wise, but that whole group I mentioned above are people that I can fully endorse.

Also adding: I know that @derg has flown at SJI with a number of our former pilots. Not sure he’d remember anything they said about the place, but I’ll tag him anyway…
 
Last edited:
Well, I was there for 16 years, many of them as pilot/management up through D.O.. It is, in my opinion, one of the better 135/91K/91 operators in the country, and we always had strong involvement with industry wide safety groups (usually had a board member on the Air Charter Safety Foundation for example), and we’re early adopters of ASAP and SMS. We were successful at reworking the company guidelines to properly reflect and implement Prospective Rest and fatigue mitigation.

While I was there (retired a couple of years ago now), the customer base was primarily owners, fractional owners, and card holders from the West Michigan, Chicagoland, and eastern Wisconsin areas, with little straight charter. We also opened a base in Naples, Florida and we’re building our Midwest-Florida market. We (as crew) got to know our passengers personally, and the company owner was all about treating customers well.

We would even try to keep aircraft and crews with the customers rather than squeeze in additional charter flights in the middle of, for example, a three day sit. This was good and bad. Good part was sitting in really nice locations for a couple of days rather than scrambling more flights. Bad part was that this did not maximize revenue, making it harder to get raises. During the last few years, especially when COVID was really boosting private jet travel, and sales sold more cards and fractional shares, the industry standard of trying to maximize aircraft utilization began to creep in. I don’t know how well they’re balancing that out now…

Formerly, as a mid-western based company (more on that later), we were always low pay compared to national rates. We were in a low COL area so that wasn’t as critical as it could have been, but still… Also I was always pushing (mostly unsuccessfully) to get an alternate schedule to the 8/6. When I was hired the schedule was 4/3, which I loved. As aircraft utilization increased over the years, the scheduling side of operations got the longer schedules implemented. (By that time I was doing office work as well as flying, so didn’t fly an 8/6 schedule. At the end of my time there I was actively trying to get out of the top D.O. position (I did the career change to fly, not manage people & operations again!), and when it came time to return to just flying I tried to negotiate something other than 8/6. They wouldn’t bite, so I retired instead.) Don’t take this wrong - there are many pilots that do just fine with 8/6, it just wasn’t what I wanted.

All that said, much of it might not apply so much to that CJ3 position. Not too long after I retired, Northern announced a merger with Florida based Speedbird. The CJ3 operation was a Speedbird baby. While some of the (really good) people that I know are still there (I can vouch for the current D.O.), I have not talked to people in detail to know how all the pieces are sorting out with the merger. I presume that merging two corporate cultures can be “interesting”, but from what little I heard Speedbird was not one of those stereotypical cut-rate (south) Florida 135’s, but was similar in many ways to the Northern Jet I knew. I certainly have not heard anything to give me pause, but as you well know pilot QOL is in how the details are implemented.

Bottom line: they were a good operation (top quality newer aircraft, very, very well maintained (both mechanically and cosmetically), with an industry leading safety emphasis. I can’t imagine that has changed much, but I’m not current on the situation there.
Amazing write up. Thank you. And yes. NJM has a spectacular reputation from a few years back. I been seeing some negatives with QOL recently pop up from the Michigan pilots that are not fond of the merger. A lot of "under paid and over worked" comments on some sites, but they come with no true details other than "not how it used to be". Change is tough so I take some of that lightly since they lack detail of what they truly mean in their comments. Versus your write up is great with detail. So thank you. And. As you said, the 8/6 change is not a welcome change for many so that could be some of the source of the harsh comments. Hard to find current (recent 12 month info out on the pilot group), but I assume that's all due to the merger and culture combination still taking place.
 
I noticed in your other post, where you were enumerating your options, you said: “…Or steady schedule making half the pay at a 135 that may work ne 14 hours nonstop all 8 days on the road, but know that comes with a decent amount of time off at my real home when not faced wirh an ugly commute with a no seniority reserve schedule.”

I will say that when I was there we worked really hard to keep pilot workload reasonable and safe. Pilot management kept an eye on the schedule daily, and crew scheduling was really receptive to us when we saw busy days stacking up for crews. I don’t remember the exact details but we put a lot of effort into giving scheduling some guidelines to reduce the chances of fatiguing schedules. We looked at factors like number of legs, daily scheduled duty time and actual duty day lengths, time zone changes, etc., and helped juggle schedules and aircraft to avoid issues. We knew that multi-leg 14 hour days are not sustainable, nor safe. I personally saw numerous occasions where the company paid for outside lift (undesirable as it was expensive, and we wanted our customers on our aircraft with our crews) when we had “legal but not smart” options in-house. Knowing the current Director of Operations I would bet that that emphasis is still there. *fingers crossed*
Now that's the response I truly hope for. And yes. I spoke to the DO and he is absolutely wonderful. Seems very caring about not only the company, but also the pilot group as well.

And yeah. If I look at total comp NJM is way low at around 125k all in (with per diem) and marginal other vendors. But home 12 days a month is worth a lot. Could be a great QOL unrivaled elsewhere if there are controls in place not to push 135 rest limits. About a 2 year contract too which always makes one wonder if it's due to ugly rest rules since can't imagine a high turn over at a good operator. Hence the ful thought process there.

Versus my old employer offering 218k for my return plus benefits that are amazing and annual increases that are quite high with a cozy airline schedule and 3 weeks vacation, but we all know the commute situation at a regional airline is perplexing and stressful and taxing and tough. All that time off and pay on paper can all disappear quick if the commute is awful, and it usually is.

The core of my concern though. The FAA. I have to see my doctor every time I renew my 1st Class and tell him about my flying and career and rest and diet. The. Tell him how my rest and diet is affected by my flying career. If one concern is bright up about too much flying to where my strict diet or rest is being affected, I could end up not being issued a medical or could have a doctor dictate where I can and can't work potentially. All due to me just getting my medical back after solving a sleep disorder. Hence the core concern. I know the 121 world schedule is fine and the doctor expected that's where I would end up. But 135 with the 8/6 flying and known commute seems like a great QOL. But those 6 days could raise a red flag for the doctor if the unscented 135 world throws my diet or sleep mandates out the window. Hence, the whole story. :)
 
Actually it appears that I do still know a significant part of the operations management team, including the VP of Operations, the VP of Client Experience, the VP of Maintenance, the Director of Operations, the Chief pilot, and others, as well as many line pilots of course. All of those management people are solid and trustworthy and won’t blow sunshine up your skirt beyond the normal pro-company slant. They won’t lie.

Anybody you want to talk to, just let me know and I’ll try to make introductions.




Edit to add: the more I think about it, I can’t stress enough how pro-pilot that team is. The D.O. and Chief Pilot (I forgot that Peter got the job) are going to look out for the guys as well as anybody I can think of. Obviously there are other forces at play in the decision making process and I can’t predict how that plays out big-picture wise, but that whole group I mentioned above are people that I can fully endorse.

Also adding: I know that @derg has flown at SJI with a number of our former pilots. Not sure he’d remember anything they said about the place, but I’ll tag him anyway…
I have sent them an email from my Doctor so he can get answers to approve my medical. I have no idea how to answer the questions but I am certain they will. I have to turn the form in later this month to the AME it seems for any employer I am considering. Oddly I never got a letter about this but my AME had this form on file for me to complete at each 1st class medical with a specific doctor the FAA listed. Small hurdle to jump through, but the letter is written nicely. Hopefully it does not scare them off. But then they likeky seen their before as my AME told me it's common so not to be alarmed.
 
I have sent them an email from my Doctor so he can get answers to approve my medical. I have no idea how to answer the questions but I am certain they will. I have to turn the form in later this month to the AME it seems for any employer I am considering. Oddly I never got a letter about this but my AME had this form on file for me to complete at each 1st class medical with a specific doctor the FAA listed. Small hurdle to jump through, but the letter is written nicely. Hopefully it does not scare them off. But then they likeky seen their before as my AME told me it's common so not to be alarmed.
There is a group called AirDocs that I would consult when I was D.O. and needed advice. I also used Dr. Pinnell for my personal First Class issuance as well. Good chance that Northern still calls them for assistance on unusual cases. I thought they did a great job - aviation medicine is all that they did, and they knew who to talk to at Oklahoma City when needed. Very knowledgeable on the ins-and-outs of pilot medical issues.
 
There is a group called AirDocs that I would consult when I was D.O. and needed advice. I also used Dr. Pinnell for my personal First Class issuance as well. Good chance that Northern still calls them for assistance on unusual cases. I thought they did a great job - aviation medicine is all that they did, and they knew who to talk to at Oklahoma City when needed. Very knowledgeable on the ins-and-outs of pilot medical issues.
Excellent. And that's a good benefit. Guess the semi annual doctor interview is just how the FAA "tracks me" for 5 years per the letter the AME had in his file. And good to hear NJM likely has a process. Seems to be a great place.
 
sounds like you’ve spoken to the DO, did you explain your medical situation to them? they sound pretty good, maybe they can give you a typical cj3 schedule from a pilots rotation to send to the ame/okc (if the schedule is still as relaxed as Steve mentioned) to assuage any concerns okc would have about your rest and diet
 
sounds like you’ve spoken to the DO, did you explain your medical situation to them? they sound pretty good, maybe they can give you a typical cj3 schedule from a pilots rotation to send to the ame/okc (if the schedule is still as relaxed as Steve mentioned) to assuage any concerns okc would have about your rest and diet
Yes. He knows I am back from several years off from flying and knows of the medical background. The extra doctor appointment I just found out about as I thought it was only annual, but the AME wants it with each medical renewal for his files. I actually flew the Citation sim at FSI Orlando with him and that went extremely well. Had a blast in the sim and have an offer in hand that I felt great about until I got beat up by my doctor since I did not know how to answer the questions he was asking. So I'll be waiting for them to respond to the questions my doctor wants answered. I have time luckily, but felt a bit deflated when I got told I was "supposed to go back to 121 and not 135 he thought". Heck, NJM really sounds great for QOL I thought, so I suppose I just need to convince the doc that it's not a burn and churn time building outfit that burns folks out.
 
Yes. He knows I am back from several years off from flying and knows of the medical background. The extra doctor appointment I just found out about as I thought it was only annual, but the AME wants it with each medical renewal for his files. I actually flew the Citation sim at FSI Orlando with him and that went extremely well. Had a blast in the sim and have an offer in hand that I felt great about until I got beat up by my doctor since I did not know how to answer the questions he was asking. So I'll be waiting for them to respond to the questions my doctor wants answered. I have time luckily, but felt a bit deflated when I got told I was "supposed to go back to 121 and not 135 he thought". Heck, NJM really sounds great for QOL I thought, so I suppose I just need to convince the doc that it's not a burn and churn time building outfit that burns folks out.
yeah maybe they just need a bit of context for what youre going to be jumping into. it sounds like you have several DEC offers from regionals, I’d argue that is probably more fatiguing sked than an 8/6, especially being junior and working reserve, but the doc probably has a lot of preconceived notions.

on that note, if you want to do the 135 I’d probably go the angle of presenting the pros of the 135 sked and not hand them a bunch of cons why 121 sked is bad, don’t want to pigeonhole yourself with the medical if you make an argument against 121 for them.

good luck, it’s just another bump in the road to get back and I hope you find some progress soon
 
Back
Top