State of hiring for the mediocre.

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I commuted as a regional FO from DFW to NYC for 3.5 years and it was a lot better than the 135 jobs I had once I was off reserve. PSA pays $180/hr? Jeez. I’d take that without the headaches of DEC.

Good luck.

 

[TexasFlyer]

Well done getting that many CJOs! You should now write interview books to supplement income.

I actually did write a book on interviewing. I used to be an aviation headhunter and would prep every person I represented for the job they were about to interview, and they would nearly 100% of the time get the job. Prior life for me. So long ago....

 

[ChasenSFO]

Best of luck man, happy to see you want back in.

 

[///AMG]

Even getting on payroll has some ups and downs. This is apples and oranges, but I have more than one friend that was hired to a 91 position, went to the 142 school house and while there that owner/ management company called and said "We've decided to sell the jet, school is paid for, enjoy the rating, thank you and good luck in your future."

Maybe not the worst outcome. Not the best of course, but a free type rating is cool

 

[CFI A&P]

Maybe not the worst outcome. Not the best of course, but a free type rating is cool

The only hiccup with such a gift is explaining the shiny new type but no experience in it, but if you get past the interview the PRIA/PRD should bolster your story.

“Tell us how you have ABC type rating but not time in type?”

 

[USMCmech]

That is me

1) CJO from Envoy 2 months ago as Direct Entry Captain, no start date yet.

Intel from the last instructor meeting is next new hire class will be late September.

#notpartofrecruitingormanagment

 

[TexasFlyer]

Intel from the last instructor meeting is next new hire class will be late September.

#notpartofrecruitingormanagment

So unfortunate. But then. My decision is getting easier. Scratch Envoy. I will be staring somewhere in August. NJM and PSA and Endeavour gave me firm August start dates.

And frankly for QOL, high time FO at PSA and Endevour as an entry point wins out over a DEC Captain anywhere since they give me 7 years Captain pay as an FO in both cases.

And to my surprise. After looking at overall benefits and taking it all in on a weighted average spreadsheet.

Envoy wins hands down if I went in as an experienced FO. But I'm not being considered as that there, I asked. So they lose big time with me as DEC due to QOL.

PSA and NJM are a tie on my weighted average analysis of Pay and QOL analysis.

And I am shocked, but Endeavor became a distant third on my weighted average analysis.

So that's where I'm at right now. And leaning toward NJM due to short term it's best QOL by far and long term it's still okay QOL, although PSA long term is great QOL. Having only 12 years left in my flying career, QOL without huge up front sacrifice is more important compared to how I valued it a decade ago.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I used to fly with a VERY senior F/O a lot prior to retiring. He was going to upgrade just prior to retirement for the pension bump but had no interest in taking the seniority hit to be in the left seat. Nothing wrong with being a PFO at a legacy for QOL reasons.

While I understand that, but at some point especially when they’re 30 yrs in and could literally hold that same schedule on the CA side too…?


For stories of “I do this for QOL, this is great!” there are also stories of those who tried to upgrade and couldn’t make it. Some, numerous times.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

So unfortunate. But then. My decision is getting easier. Scratch Envoy. I will be staring somewhere in August. NJM and PSA and Endeavour gave me firm August start dates.

And frankly for QOL, high time FO at PSA and Endevour as an entry point wins out over a DEC Captain anywhere since they give me 7 years Captain pay as an FO in both cases.

And to my surprise. After looking at overall benefits and taking it all in on a weighted average spreadsheet.

Envoy wins hands down if I went in as an experienced FO. But I'm not being considered as that there, I asked. So they lose big time with me as DEC due to QOL.

PSA and NJM are a tie on my weighted average analysis of Pay and QOL analysis.

And I am shocked, but Endeavor became a distant third on my weighted average analysis.

So that's where I'm at right now. And leaning toward NJM due to short term it's best QOL by far and long term it's still okay QOL, although PSA long term is great QOL. Having only 12 years left in my flying career, QOL without huge up front sacrifice is more important compared to how I valued it a decade ago.

Honestly, like others have said, go for the DEC 121 position. Take the one with the least painful commute. Get your time, constantly apply and update apps.

 

[BobDDuck]

So that's where I'm at right now. And leaning toward NJM due to short term it's best QOL by far and long term it's still okay QOL, although PSA long term is great QOL. Having only 12 years left in my flying career, QOL without huge up front sacrifice is more important compared to how I valued it a decade ago.

I may have missed it in the quick read through, but with 12 years left, what's your best case end goal, and what's the end goal you'd be happy with?

 

[roundout]

While I understand that, but at some point especially when they’re 30 yrs in and could literally hold that same schedule on the CA side too…?


For stories of “I do this for QOL, this is great!” there are also stories of those who tried to upgrade and couldn’t make it. Some, numerous times.

Not all of us need 4 stripes to stroke our own ego

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Not all of us need 4 stripes to stroke our own ego

Of course not. But what’s among the very first thing they say in the interview?






“We are hiring future Captains”

 

[roundout]

Of course not. But what’s among the very first thing they say in the interview?






“We are hiring future Captains”

I went to two legacy interviews. Not gonna lie, the days were kind of a blur And my memory isn't the best. But I don't think either one of them said anything like that. They did at American Eagle (po one out). The legacy interviewers both asked me about the volunteer experience on my resume.

This is anecdotal knowledge And there are people in this website who know more interview questions than I do.

 

[tlove482]

So unfortunate. But then. My decision is getting easier. Scratch Envoy. I will be staring somewhere in August. NJM and PSA and Endeavour gave me firm August start dates.

And frankly for QOL, high time FO at PSA and Endevour as an entry point wins out over a DEC Captain anywhere since they give me 7 years Captain pay as an FO in both cases.

And to my surprise. After looking at overall benefits and taking it all in on a weighted average spreadsheet.

Envoy wins hands down if I went in as an experienced FO. But I'm not being considered as that there, I asked. So they lose big time with me as DEC due to QOL.

PSA and NJM are a tie on my weighted average analysis of Pay and QOL analysis.

And I am shocked, but Endeavor became a distant third on my weighted average analysis.

So that's where I'm at right now. And leaning toward NJM due to short term it's best QOL by far and long term it's still okay QOL, although PSA long term is great QOL. Having only 12 years left in my flying career, QOL without huge up front sacrifice is more important compared to how I valued it a decade ago.

That sounds like very good logic. The one thing I would caution you on is 8/6 schedules are great for some and torture for others. I hated life by day 4-5. It became a continuous countdown of how many days left before I'm off. Then I'd count down how many days left before I went back.

 

[Kingairer]

Not all of us need 4 stripes to stroke our own ego

Yes, but like he says, when it gets to the point where you can have your choice of schedules in either seat, why not make 50% more and do the same thing?

 

[BobDDuck]

Yes, but like he says, when it gets to the point where you can have your choice of schedules in either seat, why not make 50% more and do the same thing?

Because for many people you'll never have the same choice in schedule in either seat in some categories.

 

[Kingairer]

Because for many people you'll never have the same choice in schedule in either seat in some categories.

But when the times comes....I no longer understand it.
I can point to 5-10 in my current base where they are still riding as FOs when they could be in the same % give or take a number or two in the left.

 

[TexasFlyer]

That sounds like very good logic. The one thing I would caution you on is 8/6 schedules are great for some and torture for others. I hated life by day 4-5. It became a continuous countdown of how many days left before I'm off. Then I'd count down how many days left before I went back.

I actually wonder about that. But then at least I'd be home 12 days a month. Any 121 role I have an offer from is a year (PSA) or five (Envoy) or three (Endeavor) on reserve right now with only 12 days off and a standby commute on full aircraft going TPA to LGA or TPA to PHL or TPA to DFW. I am trying the fathom how I would ever actually get home more than maybe one 5 day block a month for years to come since all are tough commutes. As anything to and from Florida is. And moving from my beach house is not an option. That's the 8/6 for 60k less a year versus the random 12 day off commuter 121 schedule question.

 

[TexasFlyer]

Honestly, like others have said, go for the DEC 121 position. Take the one with the least painful commute. Get your time, constantly apply and update apps.

All have painful commute. Tampa to NYC or Philly or Dallas on a multi-year reserve schedule. That's the dilema. And moving to base, not an option. Although I will rent a room in base and other than NY buy an airport car for that base. But still. I like my time at my beach house. So trying to figure out if the commute is going to truly be hell for me compared to the 8/6 schedule that will work me harder but have me home on those 6 days. And at my age, this is my last rodeo as I plan to stay where ever I go. So stick it out in 135 or stick it out at the regional as a Captain since going to a major with only a few years of career left would not make sense for me. So what ever I pick I plan to make it my final destination.

 

[TexasFlyer]

I may have missed it in the quick read through, but with 12 years left, what's your best case end goal, and what's the end goal you'd be happy with?

This is my end goal. Which ever I pick now is my home until I retire. That's how I am looking at it and why it's so tough. I don't want to jump anywhere again after this if it can be avoided.

So it's either a 8/6 charter life end goal for 60k less a year. Or a 121 regional end goal with a god awful commute for 3 to 4 years from TPA to LGA or PHL or DFW. Then after that commute is easier to MIA or ATL or CLT but still a standy commute versus just that 8/6.

Trying to fathom that commute for the regionals. I heard commuting out of anywhere in Florida is awful and a problem. And my home time and sanity will be majorly impacted due to it. Relocation, not an option. Hence the hesitation to go the regional route. But then I have others staying an 8/6 charter schedule under 135 is pure hell due to 14 hour days. But I did narrow it down I believe to PSA since I worked there before and did enjoy it (but lived in base back then) vs NJM flying that little citation on an 8/6.