Non-Union airlines..

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OldTownPilot said:
Your new job at rebubshutaqua getting to your head?

Don't let Bedford think he's going to have 170's at CAL under their new contract. Thats the only reason that he got CRJs was to have an in at CAL under his false impression that CAL will give up scope in these negotiations. CHQ loses a TON of money on their CAL flying when you consider the CRJ program costs.

While there are a myriad of forces that brought the RJs into light (I could probably white a doctoral thesis on such), The majors scoped that flying away, the commuters became contract feed airlines, and the manufactures created such jets, Its nearly impossible to pinpoint blame on any one group. The net result is a loss of good mainline jobs, and an increase of contract feed jobs. Dont kid yourself airdale, you and your job are no better than the outsourced call center job in india. All that you have could be taken away at the whim of a contract. Any job at a Major is infinitely more stable than any job at a 'regional'.
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:yeahthat:

Best post of the night!
 
Airdale said:
Oh thats right I forgot. You're the GREAT oh WISE ALPA UNION know-it-all-ain't-been-at-an-airline-for-a-year First Officer!
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Your argument is so weak you resort to this. Typical.

There was a gap between the 50-90 seat market because MAINLINE pilots refused to fly aircraft that size. Well guess what? Regionals filled the gap. I will laugh if a mainline pilot tells me I'm stealing his flying. Umm..negative. It was your flying, but you didn't want to fly these aircraft - remember - and your company decided to contract this route to have less empty seats.
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You just don't get it.

We can fight to change pay, work rules and QOL. But you will never change the direction of the industry and the aircraft in it.
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Glad to see you're so positive. Tell that to the CAL, AA, Air Tran, and SWA pilots who established this thing called scope. Seems they changed the direction the regional jet industry was headed for. :rolleyes:
 
Nick said:
Okay, Airdale, this is what I get out of your posts then:

1) RJs have and will continue to take advantage of weak mainline scope
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True. Not my decision or my idea, but my observation. Not that I blame Mainline pilots. Going to a Major should be a big step, in pay, QOL and aircraft size.

Nick said:
2) Not many want to fly for a regional as a career
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Hopefully true. I know I don't want to be an RJ pilot forever. Mainly because I want to be employed by the big logo on the plane, not the little letters on the side. Better job security I would imagine. Someday I'd like to fly 73's to start then 75/76's international. Just a goal anyway.

Nick said:
3) At least the commuters are glass cockpits now, even though that comes with a million dollar income reduction over a career.
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Well not necessarily "glass cockpit", but the newer technology by far enhances situational awareness. Windows XP is far superior then Windows '95. So why use Windows '95? If the technology of GPS/FMS and EFIS systems is available, why not use it for better safety?

As far as money, well I think the pay issues surround a shift in corporate America's value of its employees. Thats a different topic.

So, given the fact that RJs directly replace mainline on many routes, then we must assume that to a degree, regional airlines replace mainline jobs.

Nick said:
You would rather have more regional airline jobs and fewer mainline jobs as long as it's a glass cockpit with hi-tech stuff?
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No. This isn't what I was getting at. In an *ideal* world, Regionals would fly little hopper routes and Majors would fly everything from Domestic to International. This would mean more jobs at the Majors. Unfortunately though (and this is my point), the direction of the industry is Regional aircraft flying more and more Domestic routes. This isn't the Regional Pilot's fault. We're just looking for better opportunities in the Regional cess pool, which is why I don't think mainline pilots should give regional pilots any crap. Its not our fault. We're just living in the current industry and I promise that no MEC can change that.
 
OldTownPilot said:
Yeah, I'll take a plane that doesn't try to guess what regime of flight i'm in. *cough*airbus*cough*
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lol, shoulda seen what the old avro jets would do at mesaba. wrong breaker pops on the ground and the plane thinks its airborn... so no brakes! rock on!

hey oldtown, you write that thesis on the RJ's and you'll be doing a great thing for pilots. we'll start up volume three of Flying the Line.
 
Dave

are going to throw your hands in the air, give up and say, "this is what we were given, let us live with it."

or

are you going to fight to change it. i would much rather fight to change things for the better Dave.
 
Seggy said:
Dave

are going to throw your hands in the air, give up and say, "this is what we were given, let us live with it."

or

are you going to fight to change it. i would much rather fight to change things for the better Dave.
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Seggy, do you really think you can change anything as a captain at a small, turboprop outfit? C'mon. I am a new FO and you're a relatively new captain despite that we're the future, we should sit down and shut up.

:sarcasm:
 
jynxyjoe said:
lol, shoulda seen what the old avro jets would do at mesaba. wrong breaker pops on the ground and the plane thinks its airborn... so no brakes! rock on!

hey oldtown, you write that thesis on the RJ's and you'll be doing a great thing for pilots. we'll start up volume three of Flying the Line.
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Not gonna happen. 5 and a half years of undergrad is more than enough. There is NO WAY IN HELL of me going to grad school right now.
 
meritflyer said:
Seggy, do you really think you can change anything as a captain at a small, turboprop outfit? C'mon. I am a new FO and you're a relatively new captain despite that we're the future, we should sit down and shut up.

:sarcasm:
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Seggy did a LOT as a lowly FO at a small TP outfit.

<edit>Whoops didn't see the sarcasm tag
 
OldTownPilot said:
Your new job at rebubshutaqua getting to your head?
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Absolutely not. I'm just tired of hearing people b*tch about the way the REGIONAL industry is.

OldTownPilot said:
Don't let Bedford think he's going to have 170's at CAL under their new contract. Thats the only reason that he got CRJs was to have an in at CAL under his false impression that CAL will give up scope in these negotiations. CHQ loses a TON of money on their CAL flying when you consider the CRJ program costs.
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A job is a means to an end, and a Regional job is a means to get to the next level. Point?

OldTownPilot said:
While there are a myriad of forces that brought the RJs into light (I could probably white a doctoral thesis on such), The majors scoped that flying away, the commuters became contract feed airlines, and the manufactures created such jets, Its nearly impossible to pinpoint blame on any one group. The net result is a loss of good mainline jobs, and an increase of contract feed jobs. Dont kid yourself airdale, you and your job are no better than the outsourced call center job in india. All that you have could be taken away at the whim of a contract. Any job at a Major is infinitely more stable than any job at a 'regional'.
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And where did I say/imply I was any better then anyone else????? Please, give me a break. It doesn't matter what REGIONAL I fly for, its still a REGIONAL. My ENTIRE point here is that REGIONAL pilots are NOT AT FAULT for the RJ's and routes they fly. THATS IT. Thats my point. If some mainline pilot comes up to me and opens his mouth about how I'm taking his job, I'm walking away. Regional PILOTS are not taking mainline jobs. We're just trying to move up the next rung of the ladder. Does anyone see that?
 
meritflyer said:
Seggy, do you really think you can change anything as a captain at a small, turboprop outfit? C'mon. I am a new FO and you're a relatively new captain despite that we're the future, we should sit down and shut up.

:sarcasm:
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if you saw what i saw back in the day with colgan and with seggy fighting for us you wouldn't joke about things like that.

you as an fo sat around at Wok and Roll. Seggy sat with the CO and XJT MEC's trying to put together an organizing committee.
 
jynxyjoe said:
if you saw what i saw back in the day with colgan and with seggy fighting for us you wouldn't joke about things like that.

you as an fo sat around at Wok and Roll. Seggy sat with the CO and XJT MEC's trying to put together an organizing committee.
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Well, I wasn't a FO back then so the timing doesn't exactly work out..

As for Seggy's efforts? Priceless. This industry needs more guys just like him, IMO.
 
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