New Hire Bonus

cencal83406 said:
Because we all just took it in the shorts really hard. Pinnacle's motto from a pilot's perspective: "BOHICA".

When they can pay all of us for the work as we should, then we can talk about off street hiring.

I'm also hoping no one picks up until they offer 200% since it was so important for them to remove premium pay from our contract.
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You want it in your contract to prevent the company from offering employment incentives to new employees, but your're perfectly fine with offering existing employees additional work incentives. What's the intent? To staff the company or to earn more money?
 
rocketman5150 said:
You want it in your contract to prevent the company from offering employment incentives to new employees, but your're perfectly fine with offering existing employees additional work incentives. What's the intent? To staff the company or to earn more money?
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The intent is to make sure things work the legal/proper/"right" way. Couldn't be any simpler.
 
nc1982 said:
Hey man, I'm sure 6 years of contract hell and working with that management will leave plenty of scars. I understand that. You guys went through hell. But you are out now, freed from prison. Enjoy it. Believe me, 99% of guys here are trying to get to where you are at.
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I'll say this much about being free from prison. Yeah, I might be free, but I'm still tied to the place via parole :)

Those of us that worked there and still talk about Pinnacle do it because we care. Most of us still have good friends working there and honestly, it is still painful to know what those people are going through.

nc1982 said:
I just don't get it. You guys moved on from this place and are happy where you are at. Let us that are still left deal with the ramifications of what's going on. Union issues, merger issues, contract issues, bridge agreements, flows, it's our issues, not your issues anymore, so move on. Why you get worked up over merger issues when it doesn't involve you is beyond me.
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They are not just your issues... the issues affect every single one of us at the regional level.

One thing I learned during contract negotiations is that individual agreements are interconnected and highly important. What the Pinnacle pilots argreed to in the concessionary contract will affect someone elses negotiations... that affect someone elses negotiations...etc.
 
ctab5060X said:
I'll say this much about being free from prison. Yeah, I might be free, but I'm still tied to the place via parole :)

Those of us that worked there and still talk about Pinnacle do it because we care. Most of us still have good friends working there and honestly, it is still painful to know what those people are going through.



They are not just your issues... the issues affect every single one of us at the regional level.

One thing I learned during contract negotiations is that individual agreements are interconnected and highly important. What the Pinnacle pilots argreed to in the concessionary contract will affect someone elses negotiations... that affect someone elses negotiations...etc.
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I didn't realize you bailed too. Where to? Congrats by the way. I agree, contract negotiations are interconnected. But you know what else I learned about contract negotiations, the individual pilot doesn't give two crap about the ramifications of their vote. Sad, but at the regional level that's how it is. You take Pinnacles recent contract and give it to 20 regionals with the same mother Delta over your head with threats, and knowing DCI history, all 20 regionals will vote the same way. There is no unity amongst us. I've learned in my short 121 career that pilots are only out for themselves. I can bet the 85 percent yes voters never once thought about what Eagle, or ASA/XJET, or PSA pilots were gonna think if they voted this POS. They were thinking about their jobs and finances, not the ramifications to other regionals. Maybe when I get to a major I'll care more.
 
nc1982 said:
I didn't realize you bailed too. Where to? Congrats by the way. I agree, contract negotiations are interconnected. But you know what else I learned about contract negotiations, the individual pilot doesn't give two crap about the ramifications of their vote. Sad, but at the regional level that's how it is. You take Pinnacles recent contract and give it to 20 regionals with the same mother Delta over your head with threats, and knowing DCI history, all 20 regionals will vote the same way. There is no unity amongst us. I've learned in my short 121 career that pilots are only out for themselves. I can bet the 85 percent yes voters never once thought about what Eagle, or ASA/XJET, or PSA pilots were gonna think if they voted this POS. They were thinking about their jobs and finances, not the ramifications to other regionals. Maybe when I get to a major I'll care more.
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That's not true of ALL the pilots. There were others of us who voted no. Not many but there were...
 
nc1982 said:
I didn't realize you bailed too. Where to? Congrats by the way. I agree, contract negotiations are interconnected. But you know what else I learned about contract negotiations, the individual pilot doesn't give two crap about the ramifications of their vote. Sad, but at the regional level that's how it is. You take Pinnacles recent contract and give it to 20 regionals with the same mother Delta over your head with threats, and knowing DCI history, all 20 regionals will vote the same way. There is no unity amongst us. I've learned in my short 121 career that pilots are only out for themselves. I can bet the 85 percent yes voters never once thought about what Eagle, or ASA/XJET, or PSA pilots were gonna think if they voted this POS. They were thinking about their jobs and finances, not the ramifications to other regionals. Maybe when I get to a major I'll care more.
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I bailed almost a year ago. Flying for a small turboprop operator headquartered in Florida.

You're right about the average pilot not caring about the ramifications of their vote, but there are those of us that do care.
 
ctab5060X said:
One thing I learned during contract negotiations is that individual agreements are interconnected and highly important. What the Pinnacle pilots argreed to in the concessionary contract will affect someone elses negotiations... that affect someone elses negotiations...etc.
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It is already happening. Airways had a meeting with our MEC and said our cost need to be inline with the new Pinnacle and they plan to met with PSA and make that point clear to them also. BobDDuck have you hear anything on your end?
 
What happened to the ALPA MECs under the DCI umbrella meeting every so often to stay on the same page? Did that just stop happening? I know Pinnacle guys were meeting with Comair, ASA and Mesaba on a regular basis. Skywest wasn't in on the deal since they weren't ALPA. Not sure if Republic was in on the meetings or not, but I don't think they were.
 
nc1982 said:
Hey man, I'm sure 6 years of contract hell and working with that management will leave plenty of scars. I understand that. You guys went through hell. But you are out now, freed from prison. Enjoy it. Believe me, 99% of guys here are trying to get to where you are at. Cherokee on the other hand, or Shy, whatever, I digress, I think he just secretly wants to come back to Pinnacle cause he doesn't look good in the open collar metro sexual uniforms.
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Ha! :aghast:
 
kellwolf said:
What happened to the ALPA MECs under the DCI umbrella meeting every so often to stay on the same page? Did that just stop happening? I know Pinnacle guys were meeting with Comair, ASA and Mesaba on a regular basis. Skywest wasn't in on the deal since they weren't ALPA. Not sure if Republic was in on the meetings or not, but I don't think they were.
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Just another meeting to enjoy "snacks" on union dime? Ironic, SkyWest is a non-union airline yet it is the highest paying DCI regional today and the one with the best fleet plan going forward.
 
Gonzo said:
It is already happening. Airways had a meeting with our MEC and said our cost need to be inline with the new Pinnacle and they plan to met with PSA and make that point clear to them also. BobDDuck have you hear anything on your end?
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They want to kill your 700 rate.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Just another meeting to enjoy "snacks" on union dime? Ironic, SkyWest is a non-union airline yet it is the highest paying DCI regional today and the one with the best fleet plan going forward.
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I actually lost a bit of money when I went to the last "joint" regional group meeting. The trip I was supposed to be on over blocked by about 3 hours. But yeah... those tasty Panera sandwiches and a bottle of Sprite REALLY made up for that.

SkyWest pays more (than some, but less than others) in hourly wages but get HUGE saving as far as health care and retirement by not having a union. We've beaten this to death here before but basically they piggyback on ALPA (and IBT I guess) work and pay just enough more to keep 51% of their pilots happy. I'd say that more of my dues money has gone to raises for SkyWest guys than it has "meeting snacks".

Of course, you know all this already, but you'd rather take pot shots from the outside.
 
I know a 7 year F/O at SkyWest. I don't think he much likes being a 7 year F/O, but his schedule is ridiculous. He works maybe like 12-14 days/month and doesn't seem to be in any great fear of his job disappearing. Contrast this with people who went to Pinnacle around the same time, and you've got to admit that something isn't working quite right at Union HQ...
 
Boris Badenov said:
I know a 7 year F/O at SkyWest. I don't think he much likes being a 7 year F/O, but his schedule is ridiculous. He works maybe like 12-14 days/month and doesn't seem to be in any great fear of his job disappearing. Contrast this with people who went to Pinnacle around the same time, and you've got to admit that something isn't working quite right at Union HQ...
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There isn't anything unusual (at many regionals... not where I'm at though) with an 17 or 18 day off schedule. I know plenty of guys, way more junior than 7 years in an FO seat getting that number of days off at places other than Skywest. Keep in mind, that 7 year FO (if there are any) at 9E went through a there way merger and BK, something SkyWest hasn't done.

I don't think that's a particularly good example of trade union dysfunction.
 
Well, I'm speaking totally out of my depth. I know people who went to RepShuTaqua around the same time, and while they've upgraded, they also seem to have a giant question mark hovering over their futures. I'm not exactly defending Skywest...I even tend to agree that they play a very smart but maybe slightly evil game of "let the union carriers screw each other silly, then profit!" But purely based on peace of mind and QOL, Skywest seems to be doing something right, whatever the means. *shrug*. I'm totally on the outside looking in, these are just observations from the other side of the pressure vessel.
 
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