New Hire Bonus

cencal83406 said:
The longevity date change issue could have been solved if the 9E union had been creative. It was a $1.6 million sticking point - we received a $10 million bonus (only 9E not 9L/XJ)... If we had used the bonus money to cover it we would have had longevity = hire = class date.

- Source: Wychor

I wish we had, but there is no going back...
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Eh, I'm not sure the head of one of the other groups in the merger is the best source in that case. Even less so after the bankruptcy contract seems to be coming out as snake oil he expertly sold.
 
BobDDuck said:
Or short sighted of people when choosing a company to work for.
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When I started there, Colgan had just been bought a few months earlier, but I didn't think the whipsaw would have been as bad. 9E back then was NW Airlink. Then the Delta merger made it Delta Connection. Then the Mesaba purchase. Then the 3-way screw job integration.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
When I started there, Colgan had just been bought a few months earlier, but I didn't think the whipsaw would have been as bad. 9E back then was NW Airlink. Then the Delta merger made it Delta Connection. Then the Mesaba purchase. Then the 3-way screw job integration.
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It can also be argued that if Airline A buys Airline B and one THEN gets hired at Airline A, don't be a bitching if Airline A merges with Airline B and Airline C.
 
kellwolf said:
Eh, I'm not sure the head of one of the other groups in the merger is the best source in that case. Even less so after the bankruptcy contract seems to be coming out as snake oil he expertly sold.
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Actually he wasn't the head of any of the groups during the merger process. XJ's chair was Mark Nagel if I recall correctly.

Wychor is our post-merger chair, and while his experience is previous XJ, he is doing a great job representing the entire group. Except one slip up that I called him out on in class: he told us that he understands losing 13 year+ CA pay is a thorn in our sides; as a 6 year FO I immediately shot my hand up and when called asked "what about 7 year FO pay???" His answer was that flows/SSP/outside hiring will fix that for me. All the guys in class were happy I asked though (we had an eclectic mix of all 3 companies in both seats).
 
cencal83406 said:
Actually he wasn't the head of any of the groups during the merger process. XJ's chair was Mark Nagel if I recall correctly.

Wychor is our post-merger chair, and while his experience is previous XJ, he is doing a great job representing the entire group. Except one slip up that I called him out on in class: he told us that he understands losing 13 year+ CA pay is a thorn in our sides; as a 6 year FO I immediately shot my hand up and when called asked "what about 7 year FO pay???" His answer was that flows/SSP/outside hiring will fix that for me. All the guys in class were happy I asked though (we had an eclectic mix of all 3 companies in both seats).
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Right. Flows outside hiring. If/when it happens. Based on hearsay from Delta recruiters at job fairs, it's a crap shoot as to if that's even going to exist. Might be 2014 before it even gets put to the test, though. I honestly still think that the snake oil got sold to the group at large. Pinnacle was pretty shady when I first got hired, but after the merger, it seemed like I was getting snowed by management and my own union. At least pre-merger, I could MOSTLY count on the union to help out. Post-merger? I trusted no one but myself and occasionally to FO sitting next to me. I'm thankfully glad to be out of that whole mess, and I'm actually enjoying being free of the union BS at least for a little while.
 
kellwolf said:
Right. Flows outside hiring. If/when it happens. Based on hearsay from Delta recruiters at job fairs, it's a crap shoot as to if that's even going to exist. Might be 2014 before it even gets put to the test, though. I honestly still think that the snake oil got sold to the group at large. Pinnacle was pretty shady when I first got hired, but after the merger, it seemed like I was getting snowed by management and my own union. At least pre-merger, I could MOSTLY count on the union to help out. Post-merger? I trusted no one but myself and occasionally to FO sitting next to me. I'm thankfully glad to be out of that whole mess, and I'm actually enjoying being free of the union BS at least for a little while.
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You just need to let it go.
 
Seggy said:
It can also be argued that if Airline A buys Airline B and one THEN gets hired at Airline A, don't be a bitching if Airline A merges with Airline B and Airline C.
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First, airline C wasn't even in the picture. And second, airline B was a bottom feeding non-union regional bought specifically to screw a union regional airline in negotiations, downgrading/displacing 9E pilots while Colgan grew tremendously, much more then they could handle.
 
kellwolf said:
Right. Flows outside hiring. If/when it happens. Based on hearsay from Delta recruiters at job fairs, it's a crap shoot as to if that's even going to exist. Might be 2014 before it even gets put to the test, though. I honestly still think that the snake oil got sold to the group at large. Pinnacle was pretty shady when I first got hired, but after the merger, it seemed like I was getting snowed by management and my own union. At least pre-merger, I could MOSTLY count on the union to help out. Post-merger? I trusted no one but myself and occasionally to FO sitting next to me. I'm thankfully glad to be out of that whole mess, and I'm actually enjoying being free of the union BS at least for a little while.
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+1
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
First, airline C wasn't even in the picture. And second, airline B was a bottom feeding non-union regional bought specifically to screw a union regional airline in negotiations, downgrading/displacing 9E pilots while Colgan grew tremendously, much more then they could handle.
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Even though with all that going on you still went to Pinnacle, so answer me this, why did you go there?
 
kellwolf said:
Right. Flows outside hiring. If/when it happens. Based on hearsay from Delta recruiters at job fairs, it's a crap shoot as to if that's even going to exist. Might be 2014 before it even gets put to the test, though. I honestly still think that the snake oil got sold to the group at large. Pinnacle was pretty shady when I first got hired, but after the merger, it seemed like I was getting snowed by management and my own union. At least pre-merger, I could MOSTLY count on the union to help out. Post-merger? I trusted no one but myself and occasionally to FO sitting next to me. I'm thankfully glad to be out of that whole mess, and I'm actually enjoying being free of the union BS at least for a little while.
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
It wasn't like that when I started. It got worse afterwards, and by mid 2008, the hiring had stopped everywhere.
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I just don't get it. You guys moved on from this place and are happy where you are at. Let us that are still left deal with the ramifications of what's going on. Union issues, merger issues, contract issues, bridge agreements, flows, it's our issues, not your issues anymore, so move on. Why you get worked up over merger issues when it doesn't involve you is beyond me.
 
nc1982 said:
I just don't get it. You guys moved on from this place and are happy where you are at. Let us that are still left deal with the ramifications of what's going on. Union issues, merger issues, contract issues, bridge agreements, flows, it's our issues, not your issues anymore, so move on. Why you get worked up over merger issues when it doesn't involve you is beyond me.
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I was still there during the merger. I guess I still have the scars on my psyche from it. I spent nearly seven years of my life there, and I still have a LOT of friends over there. I can't just flip the switch and not care. I guess that's why I can't "let it go." The merger issues I'm "worked up" over are the ones that happened while I was still there.
 
kellwolf said:
I was still there during the merger. I guess I still have the scars on my psyche from it. I spent nearly seven years of my life there, and I still have a LOT of friends over there. I can't just flip the switch and not care. I guess that's why I can't "let it go." The merger issues I'm "worked up" over are the ones that happened while I was still there.
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So when I legitimately point out how screwed up the Pinnacle Training Department aka The Northern Mississippi Flying Club is, it's ok for you to tell me to 'get over it', but it's ok for you to keep beating the dead horse?
 
Seggy said:
So when I legitimately point out how screwed up the Pinnacle Training Department aka The Northern Mississippi Flying Club is, it's ok for you to tell me to 'get over it', but it's ok for you to keep beating the dead horse?
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When did I do that? And if I did, then I apologize.
 
kellwolf said:
I was still there during the merger. I guess I still have the scars on my psyche from it. I spent nearly seven years of my life there, and I still have a LOT of friends over there. I can't just flip the switch and not care. I guess that's why I can't "let it go." The merger issues I'm "worked up" over are the ones that happened while I was still there.
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Hey man, I'm sure 6 years of contract hell and working with that management will leave plenty of scars. I understand that. You guys went through hell. But you are out now, freed from prison. Enjoy it. Believe me, 99% of guys here are trying to get to where you are at. Cherokee on the other hand, or Shy, whatever, I digress, I think he just secretly wants to come back to Pinnacle cause he doesn't look good in the open collar metro sexual uniforms.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
To which part?

Yes that we were like 'contractors.' We had no benefits in initial training from day of class. I got 400/week in check, and for tax purposes, I received a Form 1099 Misc. Income. We didn't get our ID badge until passing the checkride, then we were in CASS and that sim date was the official DOH on our badge. All benefits start date was pegged with a start date of the DOH. Theoretically, the company could say that because pilots weren't officially employees until passing sim date, then they could do with "contractor" pay whatever they wanted.

The sim date DOH was also a major thorn/contention in SLI negotiations. The 9E committee never made it clear to the arbitrator that our class date and sim date differed, and XJ and 9L took advantage of it. After the SLI hearings closed, the arbitrator still requested clarification on this DOH issue. In the end, it didn't matter because it was a category and class method.

One gift that keeps on giving is that 9E anniversary for pay continues to be (to this day) your sim date, not class date. Whereas XJ and 9L still get their raises on class date. So for 9E pilots, we lost out 1.5 - 3 months payraise sooner. So if your class date was July 15 and sim date Sept 2, then your payraise would come Sept 2, whereas your July 15 mesaba guys and colgan guys get their payraise on the july 15 class date of hire.
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That is interesting. The IRS is who defines a contractor and employee, not the company. Well they make the choice, but they can be told they made the wrong one. I can't imagine you actually met the definitions of contractor. This is an issue they've been cracking down on recently since it's tax fraud from the company side.

Key parts from the irs -
"You are not an independent contractor if you perform services that can be controlled by an employer (what will be done and how it will be done). This applies even if you are given freedom of action. What matters is that the employer has the legal right to control the details of how the services are performed."
 
Xcaliber said:
So just an off-the-top-of-my-head thought...What are the chances that a union could successfully add either a "no hiring bonus for new hire" or "no hiring bonus for new hires unless EVERYONE gets one" clause to their contracts? If regionals are already having to put these into place to attract qualified applicants, would doing this require them to raise pay instead?
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Why would you want to? All you're doing is preventing the company from hiring the people it needs, forcing you to pick up the slack.
 
rocketman5150 said:
Why would you want to? All you're doing is preventing the company from hiring the people it needs, forcing you to pick up the slack.
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Because we all just took it in the shorts really hard. Pinnacle's motto from a pilot's perspective: "BOHICA".

When they can pay all of us for the work as we should, then we can talk about off street hiring.

I'm also hoping no one picks up until they offer 200% since it was so important for them to remove premium pay from our contract.
 
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