New GI Bill and Flight Training

Hi to all

UPDATE

I may have found a school in southern California that accepts the post 9/11 gi bill. After days and days of looking and 4 conversations between Palomars VA representative and the V.A. itself, it looks like I finally may have breached the gap between the 2 entities and myself. I explained to the rep (his name is Moses) the stipulation of the training having to be offered at an IHL and he didnt belive me at first but after my 4th call with him I guess he must have asked some one or read the regulations some where because he finally told me yes and set up an appointment for me. I'm looking for guidance guys, what questions should I ask him in order to ensure I get the answers Im looking for. The A.S. degree program in AVIATION includes the private pilot certification as part of its graduation requirement which is contracted through a flight school at an airport right next door but in the course description the regs state that the fees incured for the licence (which again is a graduation requirement) are the responsability of the student. What kind of questions do I need to ask to ensure I get the right answer and what kinds of questions do you think that they will ask me so that I can have the right answers for them.
 
mirandaei said:
Hi to all

UPDATE

I may have found a school in southern California that accepts the post 9/11 gi bill. After days and days of looking and 4 conversations between Palomars VA representative and the V.A. itself, it looks like I finally may have breached the gap between the 2 entities and myself. I explained to the rep (his name is Moses) the stipulation of the training having to be offered at an IHL and he didnt belive me at first but after my 4th call with him I guess he must have asked some one or read the regulations some where because he finally told me yes and set up an appointment for me. I'm looking for guidance guys, what questions should I ask him in order to ensure I get the answers Im looking for. The A.S. degree program in AVIATION includes the private pilot certification as part of its graduation requirement which is contracted through a flight school at an airport right next door but in the course description the regs state that the fees incured for the licence (which again is a graduation requirement) are the responsability of the student. What kind of questions do I need to ask to ensure I get the right answer and what kinds of questions do you think that they will ask me so that I can have the right answers for them.
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I think that until they incorporate the flight training into the schools tuition and fees schedule and then have the VA recognize the rate (so far CA max tuition and fee schedule for the VA ch33 payments does not cover flight training cost) you will be required to pay for the flight training out of pocket. I am talking with a school in Visalia, CA and they are going through the process now to get the flight training incorporated into the cost of the course and then they have to have the state buy off on it, and then they have to have the VA buy off, or recognize, it.
Perhaps by 2011 the schools will have all the kinks worked out to use the Post 9/11 GI Bill for flight training in California.
 
Just called a helo school in NC and they bill the student for flight fees, and just "confirm" certs with UVU. Doesn't sound like the VA will cover it more than 60/40.

EDIT: FOR UVU.

I'm looking at MTSU soon ...


MTSU:
Students admitted to the Professional Pilot program must receive all required flight training beyond the Private Pilot Certificate at the MTSU Flight School. Credit for flight time, including cross-country flight time obtained by the student after becoming a private pilot is very limited and is determined by FAA and MTSU regulations. Transfer students who come to MTSU already holding the Instrument Rating may be admitted; however, they must complete the Commercial Pilot Certificate, the Maintenance Rating, and Flight Instructor Certificate at the MTSU Flight School. Students entering MTSU who already hold the Commercial Pilot Certificate are not eligible for the Professional Pilot concentration.

Crap.
 
The post 911 GI Bill will pay for flight training if it is sought through an Institution of Higher Learning. This is a complicated way to say a degree program at a college. Yavapai College in Prescott, AZ just approved a program that starts January 20th, 2010. It is an Associates Degree program that will take 21 continuous months of training that will result in an Associates Degree of Applied Sciences in Helicopter Aviaiton and your Commercial Helicopter License with Certified Flight Instructor Instrument (CFII). The college owns the program and is contracting the labs (flight portion) through Guidance Helicopters. Also the vet will qualify for $1300 BAH per month via the zip code. All flight traing is provided under FAR 141. I suggest you take a look.
 
I think the two most important points are:
1. If u convert to the new GI Bill from the old, it is a one way door and u can't go back.
2. The total cost of going in a long program at a IHL may be higher than a short course split 60/40 at a Part 141 school. This is true if u have a family to support and are looking at living expenses and lost income.

I am the Air Force Association President for the State of Mississippi and at our annual convention in DC I talked to our Veterans Affairs rep about the difficulity the new GI Bill would put on a typical mid-20 something with a family who can't take a year or two out of the workforce for flight training. That is something we may be able to work with Congress ti fix in the future
 
FightingFalconInstructor; I agree with your first point, the one way door is unfair to some. I disagree with your second point. Not only is it less expensive than doing flight training with Chapter 31, Chapter 33 pays $1335.00 per month BAH (at this zip code) while the program cost is covered. Also the vet doesn't have to come up with the money up front. Chapter 31 requires the vet to pay all costs for the Private Pilot and then 100% of any additional rating and wait for the VA to reimburse them for the 60%. Chapter 33 goes directly to the school for 100% of the cost of the program, except books and supplies which are reimbursed at a per credit hour rate. I do agree with your assesment regarding caring for a family during the program. It will be difficult for the vet to do any IHL program and work and raise a family, but it can be done, thats what I had to do, and I wish I would have had an additional $1335 per month help (I only had the option of Chapter 31 in my time). P.S. I appreciate you taking your time to look out for vets.
 
uswc45 said:
Aviator flight school just created a new collge called Aviator College of Aeronautical Science and Technology in Fort Pierce, FL. This is the same school that offers accelerated all Multi-engine training.

Looks like it has been accredited by the ACCST which might make them eligible for IHL status with the VA. The degree itself would be completely useless becasue it's not regionally accredited but, is good for someone who already has a bachelors degree and wants 200 hours of multi-engine training.
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Aviator College was Chap 33 approved on Jan 1st, 2010 according to the admissions person. They are also working on accreditation with Aviation Accreditation Board International which is a year long process. FAA is looking at using AABI accreditation as the go to for the time requirement waiver for 1500 hrs.
 
I can tell all that the post 9/11 GI Bill can and does pay for flight training as long as it is part of a degree program. One the best progams in the country is " Big Bend Community College in Moses Lake, Washington " The school and/or State of Washington owns all the 25 + planes. Their Aviation Program has been in existance for many years. Is a great program for either 2 year or 4 year degree through transfer. The Community College is located at Grant County Airport, right in the middle of the State of Washington. The Airport is used by Japan Airlines and Boeing and the US Air Force for training (747 + ). It is a great area to fly and great place to go to school. The post 9/11 will pay 100% of tuition, books, flight fees, etc. + the monthly stipend that is based on E-5 pay. This is a small town area in the middle of the State, very economical to live either on campus of apartment. Is close to Soap Lake, well known for the minerals in the lake! Google Big Bend Community College and search the aviation department. You will not be disapointed!! Another school in Washington State that takes post 9/11 at 100% is North West College of Aviation in Auburn/Kent Washington, another very fine 2/4 year school for the post 9/11. I do believe that Utah Valley has a campus with own planes that should work as well. Happy Hunting, hope everyone gets what they want. There are some very good people out there that have helped in answering questions that I needed help with, you know who you are:clap: Pay it forward for those needing answers or suggestions
 
To all, I have tried to clarify exactly what the new GI Bill does and I keep getting conflicting answers. I advise alll Vets to VERY CAREFULLY explain to a VA rep thier particular situation. E.G Active, Guard, Reserve, deployed for XX days in support of Operation XXXXX XXXXX. As far as I can tell Congress is really trying to help our folks that get deployed for a Contigency operation. However, the overseas operations came about as a patchwork, so the GI Bill Benefits did also. At least for once, Congress is really trying to get it right. It is confusing. Here's an example. An Academy grad or ROTC grad is not eligible for the GI Bill. He/she resigns, then joins the Reserves. "Poof" they are eligible. Don't ask me how but it works. Soooo, just do the original research for your individual situation. BTW, our GI Bill students are getting thier money in about 3 weeks from submission, so some things are working right!
 
This has certainly been the most dissappointing last couple of months trying to convince both the VA and school approving official about how flight training works under chapter 33. Finally got an operator that didn't tell me "no" to it right off the bat, so that was a breakthrough despite the rest of them. Now the school won't do anything because they keep telling me about an inital deadline or that they are a private school and the VA won't look at their request. I would think that they should be able to submit fees whenever, since fees will change. To set the stage, I'm trying to go to an IHL school in Minnesota for aviation, problem is that none of them have gotten their programs accepted for flight training fees, however their school programs for this are. Their has been one ray of hope though that I got from an school approving official. She told me that one school did get it approved only because a student appealed the inital request when they declined it. So maybe I'll just have to apply and then when they decline, appeal it. Seems to be the only way I'll be able to do it myself since noone else seems to help. The school fits the bill for what Chapter 33 asks for, IHL and even the flight school that they use is approved under the vocational terms. I know what people say, be happy with 60%, but when I've met the requirement to have 100%, I think that is only deserving since it's now allowed. Anyone else having similar issues?
 
subpilot said:
I would relocate to a school that had ch33 benefits approved. It is too good of a deal to pass up.
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Easier said than done. I've already moved my family 6 times in 10 years and want to finally stay in one place for more than 3 years. Yes I have looked at going to UND, but that would put me out of my guard option for my side job since it's a 6 hour drive. Yes it is possible, but when you're a military aviator you have to fly more than just that weekend a month to stay current. There shouldn't be a reason that every school in the nation that has a aviation doesn't have it's program approved. From what Graviator said in that Bend, Oregon school, there is nothing any different from what the school that I intend to go to other than the school doesn't say chapter 33 flight training benefits. So what is it that changes from one state to the next in them approving it? I've asked the VA this question and am still awaiting an answer. The only thing that I can see is that this new information is slowly filtering out there. I urge you to call the VA and ask one of the operators about this and probably more than half of them will tell you a straight up no to flight benefits, just because they haven't been educated yet. Alright, i'll step off my soapbox now.
 
The sad part of all this is that if you were a 17 year old unwed mother of two, or an illegal immigrant working at a meat processing factor, someone would come to your house to tell you how to fill out the Government forms then in the afternoon a dump truck would show up and dump $100 bills on your lawn. But the Vets get Scr**ed.
 
Did anyone already have a decent amount of certificates (PPL, CPL, ATP, etc) and was able to still use the Post 9/11 Bill towards their degree and other ratings (CFI, CFII, MEI for both airplane and helo)? I am still waiting on answers from a few aviation school departments on how to handle my current ratings and still use my benefits.


Here is a list I have compiled of good options familiar with Post 9/11 GI Bill:

Central Oregon Community College - Bend, OR
Big Bend Community College - Moses Lake, WA
Salt Lake Community College - Salt Lake City, UT
Palm Beach State College - Lake Worth, FL
Embry Riddle - Prescott, AZ, Daytona Beach, FL
University of North Dakota - Grand Forks, ND
North West College of Aviation - Seattle, WA
Yavapai College - Prescott, AZ
Middle Tennessee State University - Murfreesboro, TN
Cochise College - Douglas, AZ
Chandler Gilbert Community College/UND Partnership - Phoenix, AZ
Aviator College - Ft. Pierce, FL
AIMS College - Greeley, CO
Portland Community College - Portland, OR
Indian Hills Community College - Ottumwa, Iowa
Westfield State College - Westfield, MA
 
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