Need advice on 150 day fast track

xoibsurferx said:
Flygirl62 thanks for that. As you said the decision is ultimately mine and if it would work is totally up to me. I would be happy being a CFI at a local FBO making $25,000 a year. I know plenty of people who have been through college and are still looking for a job to pay off college debt (2 years or more after they have graduated). Many have went back because they're seeking a higher degree so they may land a job somewhere.
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:sarcasm::dunno:

Seriously?

Why ask for advice when all your doing is coming up with reasons to justify your decision and reasons why the advice is wrong(incorrectly I might add).

I know it is a tough pill to swallow. You want to do something that is rewarding and enjoyable which is understandable, but there comes a point when you need to do what is best for your family. That point is now.

The advice being given is born out of real life experiences that others have had and are much more educated on than you. At 20 I am sure you think you have it all figured out, based on your 25k statement, that much is clear. Thats not to say anyone else does, but some have the aviation thing down pretty well. It is best to heed the advice of others who have been there and done it, that way you can avoid the mistakes they made.

If you hang around here long enough youll realize that everyone here looks out for other members. People arent here to screw you, or dissuade you from entering the profession, but they will give a healthy dose of reality to those who are unaware. They are here to help guide you along the proper path.
 
Matt13C said:
If you hang around here long enough youll realize that everyone here looks out for other members. People arent here to screw you, or dissuade you from entering the profession, but they will give a healthy dose of reality to those who are unaware. They are here to help guide you along the proper path.
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Yep. Without any kind of debt, 25k is plenty to get by if you're a single guy

25k with a kid, a wife and 800 a month in debt? That's a tough situation to walk into.
 
Agreed. I'm single (not a guy though) and that's my situation. Not much cashflow in, not much out.

But, playing devil's advocate for a second, what might be an alternative career choice for the OP? Given the amount of money he can spend on education, what---specifically---would work better? Aviation doesn't pay much to start, but the upside is big, it's flying for gawdsakes, and the employment picture looks almost unbelievably good.

That's what keeps me thinking, maybe this could work, given the lack of other options besides the military, which he's not interested in.
 
Flygirl62 said:
Agreed. I'm single (not a guy though) and that's my situation. Not much cashflow in, not much out.

But, playing devil's advocate for a second, what might be an alternative career choice for the OP? Given the amount of money he can spend on education, what---specifically---would work better? Aviation doesn't pay much to start, but the upside is big, it's flying for gawdsakes, and the employment picture looks almost unbelievably good.

That's what keeps me thinking, maybe this could work, given the lack of other options besides the military, which he's not interested in.
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he can probably make it work, but it'll be really tough on him, and his family for a good while. nutrition can affect a child's growth and if he's not making enough money to feed his family a livable meal who knows what will happen.

I don't want want to beat a dead horse but in his position I'm not sure what I'd do. Since I'm single and currently make less than 20,000(nonaviation related), this path is working for me
 
Flygirl62 said:
Agreed. I'm single (not a guy though) and that's my situation. Not much cashflow in, not much out.

But, playing devil's advocate for a second, what might be an alternative career choice for the OP? Given the amount of money he can spend on education, what---specifically---would work better? Aviation doesn't pay much to start, but the upside is big, it's flying for gawdsakes, and the employment picture looks almost unbelievably good.

That's what keeps me thinking, maybe this could work, given the lack of other options besides the military, which he's not interested in.
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A good alternative career choice for the OP's situation would be any career that does not involve a $50k investment (in his case debt) to then spend the next few years at extremely low paying wages while trying to support his young family. What happens if he loses his medical or fuel prices skyrocket causing mass furloughs again? Then he is going to be working minimum wage jobs and still have the debt.

My father makes more money with better benefits driving a tour bus than I do right now and I make significantly more on first year pay than regional's payscales.

Lots of trade and skilled labor jobs require very little time or money to learn and pay relatively well.
 
I get what you're saying. But it's a situation that lots of folks are stuck in.

If the job pays well enough where he can save for flight training, that makes sense. If it doesn't, then he's going to be in exactly the same position down the road that he's in right now. In that case, perhaps flying won't work out at all? It does happen more often than I'd like. That's why sometimes taking a loan actually does make sense, if one can get from here to there and not go bankrupt on the way.

Agreed also, don't want to beat a dead horse, but it is a question that lots of folks, not just the OP, face all the time.
 
xoibsurferx said:
Please someone give me some input on my situation. Thanks!
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Right now you don't know what you don't know, particularly about the cost of kids. My advise, stay out of debt. Get a degree using Stafford loans, and only Staffords. Then worry about flying, it'll still be there waiting.
 
Flygirl62 thats exactly why I'm even considering taking out a loan. Also just because someone has a college degree doesn't ensure that I'll even get a job paying much better than minimum wage job.
 
One thing to consider, regarding loans: If the OP really wants to go for a college degree+flight training, there's a loan for folks under 23 called a Parent Plus loan. It's easier to qualify for and payments can be deferred with only 1/2 time enrollment. Which means, if the program is structured correctly, he could get through flight training first, start instructing, take the courses online and not get hit with huge loan payments before he's even established. But it's still a loan, although it's really his parents who are legally obligated to make the payments. There's also no prepayment penalty. Just running it up the flag pole.
 
Flygirl62 said:
I get what you're saying. But it's a situation that lots of folks are stuck in.

If the job pays well enough where he can save for flight training, that makes sense. If it doesn't, then he's going to be in exactly the same position down the road that he's in right now. In that case, perhaps flying won't work out at all? It does happen more often than I'd like. That's why sometimes taking a loan actually does make sense, if one can get from here to there and not go bankrupt on the way.

Agreed also, don't want to beat a dead horse, but it is a question that lots of folks, not just the OP, face all the time.
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It is a question that many face, but it is a question that needs to be answered honestly based on facts, not hopes and dreams that the best case scenario plays out.

The OP is really asking the wrong question, clearly flying is for him. Instead he should be asking himself much tougher questions only he can answer.

Am I willing to have my children on food stamps for the next 5 years so I can be happy in my professional life?

Am I willing to raise my family in a small apartment unable to provide all they want and possibly even the things they need because I chose to pursue my dream in an irresponsible manner?

Am I willing to accept that if I cant find a CFI job as easily as I hope, or if I cant find one that pays enough I am now stuck with 60k to repay and will still need to go out and find 2 jobs I hate, 1 to pay for my flight loan and another to provide for my family?

Do I understand that education loans are not easily gotten rid of through bankruptcy so in all likelihood that debt is there for good. This will make it even more difficult to attend college if flying doesnt work out since loans will be almost impossible to get.

These are questions only you can answer and it is in your best interest to answer them honestly. Whatever you choose I wish you the best of luck.
 
Matt13C said:
The OP is really asking the wrong question, clearly flying is for him.
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Certainly he thinks so, but the problem here is that nobody knows what it's really going to be like until they do it themselves. Nobody starts the road to professional aviation with the mindset that their life is going to suck -- they all think it's going to be total nirvana and exactly what they want to do with their life. Yet, tons and tons of them end up posting their "I wish I had done differently..." stories on this and other forums when the pro pilot career doesn't end up being what they thought it would be.

The reality is often very different from how it's imagined beforehand.

The only problem is that it's going to be his family that suffers when he's on jetcareers in 2012 or 2013 complaining about his dead-end $25,000/year CFI gig.
 
Hacker15e said:
Certainly he thinks so, but the problem here is that nobody knows what it's really going to be like until they do it themselves. Nobody starts the road to professional aviation with the mindset that their life is going to suck -- they all think it's going to be total nirvana and exactly what they want to do with their life. Yet, tons and tons of them end up posting their "I wish I had done differently..." stories on this and other forums when the pro pilot career doesn't end up being what they thought it would be.

The reality is often very different from how it's imagined beforehand.

The only problem is that it's going to be his family that suffers when he's on jetcareers in 2012 or 2013 complaining about his dead-end $25,000/year CFI gig.
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Completely agree with all you said. What I meant when I said "clearly flying is for him" was simply, he wants to give it a go. The real question is should he at this current time given his circumstances.
 
Hacker15e said:
Certainly he thinks so, but the problem here is that nobody knows what it's really going to be like until they do it themselves. Nobody starts the road to professional aviation with the mindset that their life is going to suck -- they all think it's going to be total nirvana and exactly what they want to do with their life. Yet, tons and tons of them end up posting their "I wish I had done differently..." stories on this and other forums when the pro pilot career doesn't end up being what they thought it would be.

The reality is often very different from how it's imagined beforehand.

The only problem is that it's going to be his family that suffers when he's on jetcareers in 2012 or 2013 complaining about his dead-end $25,000/year CFI gig.
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I agree and a $25k year CFI job is tough to come by from what I hear from some of my CFI friends.
 
xoibsurferx said:
Community college still costs and I would have to take out a loan for that. Sure the interest rates would be a bit lower but it still would be a loan I would have to pay back plus I've known many college grads that still can't find a job and are unable to pay their loans. At least as a CFI I could find a job a bit easier plus I would be doing what I want and not be stuck in some career I hate. Thats just no way to live life. Either way things won't be easy.

I have considered the military and I was in the process of joining the Navy and went through MEPS and was QNJ (Qualified, no job) and waited for many months and tried to join the Marines (next choice) and had to retake the asvab and failed miserably and then a week later the Navy called and said I had a job. I failed the asvab with the Marines so I was unable to take the Navy job. Plus after the experiance of meeting many military families, its not for my family.
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If you did fail the ASVAB, you may want to consider not getting into aviation or at least the "fast track" isn't for you. Taking out a loan doesn't guarantee you anything in the way of getting pilot certificates. It will take a lot of study and hardwork - much more than the ASVAB. The more you struggle with it, the more money it will take to get through everything. Fail a couple checkrides and you're odds of getting a job go down significantly. You will still have the debt.

The best advice would be to work hard at what you're doing, save, and find ways to fly without going into debt. There are ways out there - I did it, and many other did it. It may not provide instant gratification, but it will provide more stability than a loan.

As far as community college goes - you don't have to take out a private loan for that... there are Federal Grants and stuff out there. Don't make excuses on why you don't need to go to college - just do it... think outside of the box... if flying is truly something you want to do, you can make it happen without going into debt.
 
Good point of failing the ASVAB. That is a very easy exam and if you failed that then how are you going to pass all the written exams and checkrides?
 
I didn't completely fail the ASVAB. I actually scored very well on it but the Marines told me I'd need at least a 85 so they could get me in with the maximum number of dependents and the Navy said that as well. I have been told that the recruiters lied to me and just didn't want to deal with me and some say that the military is super picky now. So who knows.

I'm not making excuses not to attend college. My point is why would I spend money on college when I won't be happy with what I'm doing. Why not spend the money on flight training and get everything I need to be a CFI and have a job I enjoy?
 
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