Need advice on 150 day fast track

This is the only post you should read. As a father, your children come first.

Go to your local community college and enroll in something you have an interest in. It is not as much as ATP, the loans are fixed rate, the interest is lower, there are grants available and as a father of two you will receive ample aid.

A college degree is a much better option when it comes to keeping food on the table and a roof over your family's heads. When you are in a better position, then worry about flying. The degree will still be useful as it will set you ahead of other applicants without one.

Its not about what is enjoyable to you at this point, its about providing for your family as best you can. Taking 60k out and 6 months off work to learn to fly should not even enter your mind as an option.

This x1000000000!

Keep in mind, NO ONE here is telling you to throw your dreams away. We're just saying to push them back for now and focus on what's important (i.e. your family) right now. Go spend 1/8 of what you would at ATP at a community college and learn a trade! Comm. colleges are great for this! Think of electrician or HVAC or anything that has a technical aspect. Start getting money flowing in for you and your family before you start thinking of spending money. Remember, you're a dad now, it's you and your fiances responsibility to care for them.

I'm 20 also and have found myself starting my own business. I dont have much experience and it took me going to a community college to realize that I love the entrepreneur side of things. Also, a lot of JC's have job placement help. They can get you in jobs that pay a little more than min wage. And the tuition is relatively cheap!
 
My primary goal in flying would be to instruct. The local flight school that I took lessons at previously said he could do everything but the multi stuff for less than $35,000 and would give me a job as a CFI. Any thoughts on that idea?
 
My primary goal in flying would be to instruct. The local flight school that I took lessons at previously said he could do everything but the multi stuff for less than $35,000 and would give me a job as a CFI. Any thoughts on that idea?

Still not a smart idea.
 
My primary goal in flying would be to instruct. The local flight school that I took lessons at previously said he could do everything but the multi stuff for less than $35,000 and would give me a job as a CFI. Any thoughts on that idea?
get it in writing (the 35k stuff)

the job you can pretty much just keep on the back of your mind but I would honestly consider it out the window until the day of.

too many variables for him to try and keep that promise of a job.

a written down agreement for the 35k on the other hand could be a contractual agreement

but yes like trev said, still not a smart idea albeit more affordable.
 
My primary goal in flying would be to instruct. The local flight school that I took lessons at previously said he could do everything but the multi stuff for less than $35,000 and would give me a job as a CFI. Any thoughts on that idea?

Sure, make it a side job after you graduate and can support your family. Make flying for hire a long term goal.
 
My primary goal in flying would be to instruct. The local flight school that I took lessons at previously said he could do everything but the multi stuff for less than $35,000 and would give me a job as a CFI. Any thoughts on that idea?

$35K seems like an awful lot of cash to have the possibility of getting a job that generally pays much less than that a year. Getting a job as a CFI isn't that hard. Getting one where you will fly enough hours to make a living is the difficult part.

Maybe finding something to pay the bills, and flying part time for a few years as your finances allow would work better, no?
 
You keep mentioning that you can't find any jobs besides part-time minimum wage positions. Being young and having a family I would recommend looking into the military as an option (and no, I am not a recruiter). You get a steady paycheck with 2 raises per year, free medical, free housing, and after doing three years you can separate at the age of 23 or 24 and now you have some very valuable work experience on your resume plus the post 9/11 GI Bill that will pay 100% of your cost plus a living allowance to go to college and you can even enroll in an aviation program and get all your COMM/CFI training with zero student loans.

Disclaimer: The military isn't for everyone and choose the service and job carfully.
 
Community college still costs and I would have to take out a loan for that. Sure the interest rates would be a bit lower but it still would be a loan I would have to pay back plus I've known many college grads that still can't find a job and are unable to pay their loans. At least as a CFI I could find a job a bit easier plus I would be doing what I want and not be stuck in some career I hate. Thats just no way to live life. Either way things won't be easy.

I have considered the military and I was in the process of joining the Navy and went through MEPS and was QNJ (Qualified, no job) and waited for many months and tried to join the Marines (next choice) and had to retake the asvab and failed miserably and then a week later the Navy called and said I had a job. I failed the asvab with the Marines so I was unable to take the Navy job. Plus after the experiance of meeting many military families, its not for my family.
 
The ASVAB isn't exactly the most difficult test, one reason that college degrees are required for many pilot jobs is that the organizations paying for expensive training want some assurance that you will learn it all quickly.

It may well not be what you want to hear, but continuing your education will greatly increase the odds of you flying for a living someday, even if it doesn't seem that way now. Or at least give you options if aviation doesn't work out (which happens to many people, for many reasons)
 
Perhaps you should think longer term about these choices, too. The comparisons to McDonald's are a bit silly; sure, you'll bring home a free burger and fries tonite, but where will you be in 3 years? 5? 10? A bit further out, aviation looks potentially better and better, although I'm considering other career paths in addition to flight instruction when I write these words.

To that end, you might consider the importance of a college degree. Not having one limits your options, should you decide that instructing is not for you.

As I see it, the issue is not whether ATP's program is worth it or it isn't. The issue is: Is it worth it for you?
 
Sure the interest rates would be a bit lower but it still would be a loan I would have to pay back plus I've known many college grads that still can't find a job and are unable to pay their loans. At least as a CFI I could find a job a bit easier plus I would be doing what I want and not be stuck in some career I hate. Thats just no way to live life. Either way things won't be easy.

Uh... No. That is just simply not true. Having a useful trade or college degree will make you FAR more employable with significantly higher earning potential than a CFI. Ask almost any of us here on JC that have experience as CFIs and in prior professional vocations, and you'll see that this is pretty much unanimous.

Look, you have two young children and a fiance. You just may have to work at a job you hate for awhile to pay the bills. It's called being an adult. Wasting your money on playing some pilot fantasy is immature and extremely selfish for somebody in your position. I'm sorry if I sound like a prick, but geez man... I'm telling you pursuing a pilot career right now for somebody like you is just a completely terrible idea.

At this point it seems like you're trying to rationalize your decision to become a CFI rather than looking for advice. If that's the case, then there's really not much else to say.
 
What about going to UND or another aviation related college? Get your degree and fly at the same time? Maybe work a part time job while your going to school as well?
 
The reason I mention it is, I understand that there is now an A.S / B.S. program with Mountain State University, where ATP does the flight training for MSU students as they earn a degree concurrently.

But there's still the issue of finances. That's why I said what I did, about the program ---and the timing---being right or not. Honestly, it's difficult to build any career when one is young and has lots of responsibilities already.

From what I've read in Aviation Week & Space Technology, and other sources, the hiring picture in aviation is looking pretty good, and may remain so for some time. It's definitely a demanding field, but lots of other college degrees seem to lead to an employment outlook that's even less certain than aviation appears to be. Heck, freshly minted lawyers and nurses even are having a tough time of it.

Flight instructing is a tough row to hoe. The pay is simply not that good and one has to be very savvy about marketing oneself and building a business, not just showing up at the airport and hoping someone will walk in the door. There's lots of non-billable time, especially early on. And if you're with a flight school, you're depending on their marketing efforts and word of mouth reputation, so choose carefully.

If the OP can land a CFI job with ATP, he'll definitely do lots of flying, the retainer is reasonable, and he'd be building hours towards whatever could be next. ATP does extensive marketing. And there doesn't seem to be a shortage of students. They also do lots of instrument ratings, so unlike most FBOs (where student pilots working toward a PPL are the norm) he'd still fly if the weather is less than perfect. He'd also get to learn more about how a large flight school is run (and like what they do or not, their processes are really well thought out). I don't think any of those are bad things.

But whether any of this would work for him or not, only he can say.
 
Flygirl62 thanks for that. As you said the decision is ultimately mine and if it would work is totally up to me. I would be happy being a CFI at a local FBO making $25,000 a year. I know plenty of people who have been through college and are still looking for a job to pay off college debt (2 years or more after they have graduated). Many have went back because they're seeking a higher degree so they may land a job somewhere.
 
@Elmental: Well, in any case that's my perception. For the record, I honestly don't have anything against flying locally at the FBO of your choice. I want to see smaller airports stay viable and active, and that certainly helps.

@xoibsurferx: It's distinctly possible that you won't make $25,000 instructing at a FBO, when it all nets out and you factor in all the costs. And if that figure is before taxes, then it's going to be even lower. The thing is, and pardon me for saying so since it's getting into your personal life, the decision really isn't yours entirely. You have a family to look after, that's responsibility #1. Be brutally honest about the numbers, and never assume the best case since it likely won't add up that way.
 
Flygirl62 my family wants only what I want. My fiance always tells me she wants me to do what makes me happy. Shes seen me work jobs that I absolutely hated so I could support our family but she wasn't happy with it because I wasn't happy. She 100% support me in flying and trust me any money coming in from a job I love would be amazing.
 
@xoibsurferx: It's distinctly possible that you won't make $25,000 instructing at a FBO, when it all nets out and you factor in all the costs. And if that figure is before taxes, then it's going to be even lower. The thing is, and pardon me for saying so since it's getting into your personal life, the decision really isn't yours entirely. You have a family to look after, that's responsibility #1. Be brutally honest about the numbers, and never assume the best case since it likely won't add up that way.

25k is a very optimistic number honestly. Do I know CFIs that make more? Absolutely.

Do I know CFIs that make less? Yes.. a lot of times when a school starts getting less and less students, they don't want to let CFIs go, so you all basically end up with less hours.

I know of a CFI who was getting about 30-40 billed hours in November, this week he's gotten 4 hours. It's just not easy to plan a salary as a CFI as it is with other types of jobs. it's very much fluctuating every week and sometimes you might be on the low side for a few weeks and you'll be lucky to average 25 a year
 
Around here CFI's are getting between 300-500 dollars a week but as you said it varys. Now during the summer I knew some CFI's that got over 1000 a week. They all say its about saving during the summer and then you can afford to live on less during the winter. Plus 300 a week sounds AMAZING considering what I have made in the past. I guess I'm not too worried about making huge money or anything because just being able to live in a small apartment making 1500 a month is much better than I have made previously and as long as I'm doing something I love then it'll be worth it. Plus my fiance wants to make money as well (photography) and doesn't want me to be the only one working. So with her working we could easily afford to live on our own with me as a CFI.
 
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