Morbid curiosity. Upgrade times?

For DL:
How senior is DTW A320 captain?

I'm assuming 717 is the most junior fleet someone can hold, what are trips typically like(legs/day, overnight length, efficiency)?

Have you gotten any sense of expected growth in the next year or 2?
 
DeltaAlphaNovember said:
Well AA just put out the preliminary awards for June. Two of my friends that are just barely junior to me and less than 4 years on property were awarded CA on the 737 in LGA.
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Much like the famous Delta MD88 LGA 3 month or whatever a few years ago, I think there's a reason that bid status went junior.
 
Who the hell are these podcast hosts? Equating upgrading, which is a professional decision, to buying a new car you won't like the payment on in a month?!??!?!??! WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

I also like how they talk about the 'premium pay' game while most likely, in normal times, playing that games mean getting a ping on your cell phone at 1:30 AM for a 5:00 AM show and/or have those premium pay trips show up on the weekend/holidays, when one has plans.

The last thing I would do is listen to these folks for advice.
 
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Seggy said:
Who the hell are these podcast hosts? Equating upgrading, which is a professional decision, to buying a new car you won't like the payment on in a month?!??!?!??! WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

I also like how they talk about the 'premium pay' game while most likely, in normal times, playing that games mean getting a ping on your cell phone at 1:30 AM for a 5:00 AM show and/or have those premium pay trips show up on the weekend/holidays, when one has plans.

The last thing I would do is listen to these folks for advice.
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I thought they had a point considering the upgrade would mean weekend flying anyway. But I've never been one to do a whole lot of extra flying - which is what picking up premium demands.

Basically to get Captain pay in my seat I need to find another 30% credit. I could do that by picking up an extra 3 day per month at premium, or by dropping a couple existing trips and picking up premium (most likely on the weekends). It's doable but it's a lot of work with a lot of competition.

What those guys missed was that, for me, it just isn't about the money. I have no debt (other than the mortgage) and no toys. We love a modest lifestyle. For me it was about the opportunity to be the Captain - and Dylan agreed there is nothing wrong with having that desire to switch seats. For a variety of reasons I've been in the right seat for the majority of the last 25 years. And I've NEVER been in the left seat under part 121. So I think most people can understand why I'm anxious to upgrade. Add to that my desire to do so before my Dad dies, and I think you can see what motivates me.

The question was, is it worth a complicated and lengthy commute, or do I wait a few more years?

I'm pushing 50. Statistically a medical event that keeps me from doing this for a living could be right around the corner. I hope it isn't, but it could be!

So in all of those pros and cons I gave them, money was low on the list. They queried their friends, who zeroed in on money. I get it.

At the end of the day I'll have to decide based on how I feel and, if I make the choice to commute and it starts impacting home life too much, I guess downgrade and deal with the seat lock. Heck, we are still talking big numbers. Might not get to me until the kid graduates from high school in a two more years anyway. Then it just doesn't matter.

May you live in interesting times.

In 1998 I was a newhire at AirTran and in my class there were these 50+ year old guys from places like Trans Meridian and some no name freighters. I remember thinking "what did THOSE guys screw up to end up here as newhires at THEIR age?! That'll NEVER happen to me."

Boy have my eyes been opened over the last quarter century! This business is luck, timing, good decision making, and a little more luck for good measure.
 
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Seggy said:
Who the hell are these podcast hosts? Equating upgrading, which is a professional decision, to buying a new car you won't like the payment on in a month?!??!?!??! WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

I also like how they talk about the 'premium pay' game while most likely, in normal times, playing that games mean getting a ping on your cell phone at 1:30 AM for a 5:00 AM show and/or have those premium pay trips show up on the weekend/holidays, when one has plans.

The last thing I would do is listen to these folks for advice.
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The budget is (or should be) off of minimum monthly guarantee, with no sweeteners, overrides, or whoring involved.

And yeah, there’s a •-ton of bad advice floating around.
 
Derg said:
Reminds me of when I was a mad dog FO.

ACARS message says “How would first officer Taylor like an inverse assignment”

I replied “he would not”.

I was sitting on the jumpseat of my commuter flight home and got a call from crew scheduling asking where I was and I said “I answered the question and I’m on my way home”

”You might get a call from the chief pilots office about this”

”I’ll call him myself when I get to PHX”

I explained what they said, how I answered and he told me to have a nice day and sorry for the hassle from crew scheduling.
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NorthernJets had a peculiar set of rules for involuntary callouts, as they called them. Only the bottom 10% of each category was subject to them (and line and reserve were separate categories). If you were above the cutoff, you were immune and could answer your phone. It was fun to hear them beg, knowing you were totally bulletproof.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
And I've NEVER been in the left seat under part 121.
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I had not been much, either. 300 hours in a Convair. Not sure how long you've been in the right seat but the more the better. I had only been in the right seat on the same equipment for three years and never flown anything but Convair's and the 727, so the 757 was pretty "high tech". For sure, the sim part of the upgrade was a struggle. It's such a fire hose and I got the "short course" cause I was in the right seat on that equipment. I needed the long course. After I got through that, though. IOE was a breath of fresh air and went very well. Then, I sat reserve and hardly flew, which was not good but ended up being no big deal. I don't think you'll have that problem. I was fortunate in that I was able to forgo pay for QOL. I guarded, and cherished, my seniority and only upgraded when the QOL would basically not be impacted (reserve was a great deal back in those days). But if you can take the QOL hit, I'd encourage you to upgrade. It's a great feeling of career accomplishment attaining that goal at a major airline.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Thanks man. Nice to know somebody understood where I was coming from!
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I get it as well. It’s the biggest checkmark, major airline captains, in the career box that’s left unchecked at this point and it’s right there. Especially after rugs have been pulled out from under you times before it would be hard to wait patiently for an opportunity that should, but isn’t guaranteed to come. I wouldn’t think it was about the money either. The biggest balance I would think would be how to weight that personal goal with decreased time at home. Not easy.
 
Definitely not. I wouldn't even mind waiting the next two years so I could be home for all the big things leading up to mini me's college.. but if there were a merger or another virus or terrorist attack that stopped the music for several more years while I was waiting, I know I would regret it.

If I lost my medical and disability checks were coming at FO pay rates when they could've been coming at Captain rates - would also regret it.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I thought they had a point considering the upgrade would mean weekend flying anyway. But I've never been one to do a whole lot of extra flying - which is what picking up premium demands.

Basically to get Captain pay in my seat I need to find another 30% credit. I could do that by picking up an extra 3 day per month at premium, or by dropping a couple existing trips and picking up premium (most likely on the weekends). It's doable but it's a lot of work with a lot of competition.

What those guys missed was that, for me, it just isn't about the money. I have no debt (other than the mortgage) and no toys. We love a modest lifestyle. For me it was about the opportunity to be the Captain - and Dylan agreed there is nothing wrong with having that desire to switch seats. For a variety of reasons I've been in the right seat for the majority of the last 25 years. And I've NEVER been in the left seat under part 121. So I think most people can understand why I'm anxious to upgrade. Add to that my desire to do so before my Dad dies, and I think you can see what motivates me.

The question was, is it worth a complicated and lengthy commute, or do I wait a few more years?

I'm pushing 50. Statistically a medical event that keeps me from doing this for a living could be right around the corner. I hope it isn't, but it could be!

So in all of those pros and cons I gave them, money was low on the list. They queried their friends, who zeroed in on money. I get it.

At the end of the day I'll have to decide based on how I feel and, if I make the choice to commute and it starts impacting home life too much, I guess downgrade and deal with the seat lock. Heck, we are still talking big numbers. Might not get to me until the kid graduates from high school in a two more years anyway. Then it just doesn't matter.

May you live in interesting times.

In 1998 I was a newhire at AirTran and in my class there were these 50+ year old guys from places like Trans Meridian and some no name freighters. I remember thinking "what did THOSE guys screw up to end up here as newhires at THEIR age?! That'll NEVER happen to me."

Boy have my eyes been opened over the last quarter century! This business is luck, timing, good decision making, and a little more luck for good measure.
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Knew a guy at my shop who had 10 uniforms in his closet, including Braniff & Eastern, and he got one more before he retired.

People focus on the lost decade, which was bad to be sure, but there were also long periods in the 70s and early 90s where folks washed up on the beach as well.
 
DE727UPS said:
I had not been much, either. 300 hours in a Convair. Not sure how long you've been in the right seat but the more the better. I had only been in the right seat on the same equipment for three years and never flown anything but Convair's and the 727, so the 757 was pretty "high tech". For sure, the sim part of the upgrade was a struggle. It's such a fire hose and I got the "short course" cause I was in the right seat on that equipment. I needed the long course. After I got through that, though. IOE was a breath of fresh air and went very well.
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I go to upgrade training on the Guppy in a few weeks, never been a Capt, never flown the plane, and I've been on leave a year and a half. Nice to hear your story and know it's at least somewhat do-able. Hope I didnt bite off too much!
 
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