Misconceptions

[Maurus]

Ok, so by that reasoning if all you did was taxi around for two hours you would log it as two hours total time with zero flight time. Do I understand your logic? How does that comply with 1.1?

It complies with Part 1.1 till the FAA finds out about it.

 

[Brian Z]

It complies with Part 1.1 till the FAA finds out about it.

Or an logbook review during an interview.

 

[TrustMeI'maPilot]

Please read the whole post. The "Flight Time" stopped when the decision not to go was made. So the taxi out, with the intent of light started the flight time and when the decison not to go was made, the flight time stopped. The taxi back does not count as flight time.

I don't understand how you are interpreting the regulation this way, it is not even a gray area. The definition of flight time says that flight time ends after a landing is made, pretty black and white to me. You are correct that the taxi out with intent of flight started the clock, but when you decide not to go and shut down the engine at the ramp it nullifies the time and is not loggable. You can't pick and chose which part of the regulations you want to follow just because you think that is the way it should be.

If you really need taxi instruction so bad, and you want to log the time just make a quick trip in the pattern. Now the whole thing is legal to log.

 

[splash]

Here is a better can of worms to all the fine interpreters... How do you interpret being able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language (61.103b)?

 

[skidz]

I'm english proficient because it says so on the back of my license

 

[Maurus]

Here is a better can of worms to all the fine interpreters... How do you interpret being able to read, speak, write, and understand the English language (61.103b)?

AC 60-28

Next...

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I'm english proficient because it says so on the back of my license

...ummm, certificate.

 

[djsCFI]

A "checkout" is required for every different plane you fly.

As a CFI for a part 141 school, it is required to be checked out in every aircraft you instruct in. It gets kinda annoying when you are instructing in several different aircraft, but hey, it's free flight time!

 

[USMCmech]

It gets kinda annoying when you are instructing in several different aircraft, but hey, it's free flight time!

Except for when it's not free because the cheapskate owner charges for checkouts.

 

[Douglas]

I might be wrong, but I think he was referring to any average joe thinking he needs a check out in a plane before he can fly it; as in it being an FAA 61 reg and not a school requirement.

it is free time, but at my school, it was .3/.3/.4 for our different planes.
i am not complaining though, it was still fun.

 

[BrewMaster]

Have you ever wanted to reach through the phone and strangle someone?...maybe it's just me.....

Had a lady call out to the airport last week wanting to know our business hours so she could bring her teenage son(who has never flown before) out to get checked out in our plane so he could rent it over the weekend..........:banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[Brian Z]

Have you ever wanted to reach through the phone and strangle someone?...maybe it's just me.....

Had a lady call out to the airport last week wanting to know our business hours so she could bring her teenage son(who has never flown before) out to get checked out in our plane so he could rent it over the weekend..........:banghead::banghead::banghead:

Nice, even with all the information available, people are still stupid. Did she get upset and threaten to sue when you informed her that Jonny Sunshine could not be the pilot he always wanted to be?

 

[Roger, Roger]

"Turning upwind or downwind changes airspeed"

Got that one a few times this semester working on ground reference maneuvers.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

I just got one I forgot about.

"This airplane doesn't have a POH in it."
"Its not required for this aircraft."
"Yeah it is, that's what the "O" stands for in ARROW"

:banghead::banghead:

 

[cool92092]

here's a scenario, go up for a x-country flight and start getting engine roughness (very light, just something the student and I had not experienced before) about 10 miles after takeoff. just so happens that we were directly over an airport @ 6000 with plenty of landing options, so I wasn't terribly worried. Trouble shooted and couldn't get the engine to smooth out to how it was before. To me it was more of a nuisance than anything else but the student made a prudent decision to discontinue the flight and return to base and I commended him on his decision. Wrote in his logbook, X-C planing, diversions, and .8 hrs of time. Should the school eat the bill for the flight or the student pay for the time? I'm going to bill it regardless. Don't know what the problem was or whether mx was able to reproduce the problem on the ground.

The student can argue that he will have to redo the trip and that the .8 was not necessary, the school can argue that it was beneficial to the student's experience and will count toward his TT anyhow... Just curious what you guys think.

 

[killbilly]

The student can argue that he will have to redo the trip and that the .8 was not necessary, the school can argue that it was beneficial to the student's experience and will count toward his TT anyhow... Just curious what you guys think.

I'd have been overjoyed to have that experience with a CFI. That's good practical stuff you can learn from.

I was ecstatic when we had a vaccum pump failure during my hood training for my PPL. That hammered home - quickly - what that kind of failure looks like. And I was real glad Dr. CFI was with me.

You don't learn anything when everything's perfect.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

Ok.... so I learned at Riddle that with intent to fly you can log the time (up until you found out you can't go). I'm willing to stand by that one. Perhaps someone can produce a LOI about it?

Also, I'm pretty sure that we cancelled the flight if the POH wasn't in the airplane (though it DID have the Weight and Balance included).... What needs to be with the airplane to satisfy the "O" part of AR(R)OW then?

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Ok.... so I learned at Riddle that with intent to fly you can log the time (up until you found out you can't go). I'm willing to stand by that one. Perhaps someone can produce a LOI about it?

Also, I'm pretty sure that we cancelled the flight if the POH wasn't in the airplane (though it DID have the Weight and Balance included).... What needs to be with the airplane to satisfy the "O" part of AR(R)OW then?

91.9

Sec. 91.9

Civil aircraft flight manual, marking, and placard requirements.

(a) Except as provided in paragraph (d) of this section, no person may operate a civil aircraft without complying with the operating limitations specified in the approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual, markings, and placards, or as otherwise prescribed by the certificating authority of the country of registry.
(b) No person may operate a U.S.-registered civil aircraft--
(1) For which an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual is required by Sec. 21.5 of this chapter unless there is available in the aircraft a current, approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual or the manual provided for in Sec. 121.141(b); and

With each airplane or rotorcraft that was not type certificated with an Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual and that has had no flight time prior to March 1, 1979, the holder of a Type Certificate (including a Supplemental Type Certificate) or the licensee of a Type Certificate shall make available to the owner at the time of delivery of the aircraft a current approved Airplane or Rotorcraft Flight Manual.

 

[BrewMaster]

here's a scenario, go up for a x-country flight and start getting engine roughness (very light, just something the student and I had not experienced before) about 10 miles after takeoff. just so happens that we were directly over an airport @ 6000 with plenty of landing options, so I wasn't terribly worried. Trouble shooted and couldn't get the engine to smooth out to how it was before. To me it was more of a nuisance than anything else but the student made a prudent decision to discontinue the flight and return to base and I commended him on his decision. Wrote in his logbook, X-C planing, diversions, and .8 hrs of time. Should the school eat the bill for the flight or the student pay for the time? I'm going to bill it regardless. Don't know what the problem was or whether mx was able to reproduce the problem on the ground.

The student can argue that he will have to redo the trip and that the .8 was not necessary, the school can argue that it was beneficial to the student's experience and will count toward his TT anyhow... Just curious what you guys think.

I would have wanted my student to turn back. I don't know how long or how serious you were looking at the ground, but that sounds like a return-to-the-airport issue. But on that same note, he could have gone on if he wanted, so it was his call, and would more than likely have to pay for the flight. I would say it probably depends on the diagnosis on the ground. If something is seriously busted, then the school should probably pay for the flight time, but if nothing stands out and it's not reproducable on the ground, then again, the student will probably have to pay for it. Like you said, I would bill the student and reimburse him later if the school says so.

 

[SpiceWeasel]

91.9

Okay...... so you just contradicted the post that said that no POH is required - because an AFM is essentially a POH.....