Mental Health

Same goes for me. I don’t really care who you are and whether we have gotten along in the past, if you need an ear, I am here. Vulnerability can be scary as hell, but honestly the best conversations are the ones where people aren’t afraid to say how they feel. Talking helps me organize thoughts and figure out how I really feel and vulnerability forms bonds among friends.

One of my favorite things that we’d do growing up is sit around the table with coffee, tea, or (as we got older) booze and just talk. Now my favorite thing is sitting on the couch with the wife, both of us with the perfect buzz going and having deep conversations. There are a few really good collections of conversation cards out there if you have a hard time getting the ball rolling. Those nights always leave us feeling super close and with a feeling that everything is going to be ok.

Times are weird and the mental health situation in aviation isn’t good. We have a unique career that comes with some rather large challenges. The FAA isn’t there for us, but we can be there for each other.
 
killbilly said:
Is this anecdotal information?

Because, as you have described it, strikes me as completely irresponsible and irrational on the part of the therapist. That is not how the process is supposed to work. At all.
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Both personal experiences and a lifetime of listening to others experiences who have ongoing issues but careers in aviation that come with an amount of discretion and trust. AKA; liability. I'm 34 now, from the time I was 5 or 6 therapists were thrown at me for my audacious behavior, 100% of the time it's either "let's try meds and see what happens" or "we aren't a good fit, best of luck". A brick wall. I have friends on this site with similar experiences who either couldn't get help or the help tried to bite them. You can't unpack your issues to people you don't trust not to rat you out. Pilots, cops, ect. can't get much out of that kind of relationship.
 
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BEEF SUPREME said:
I read it as: Seasonal depression? Defer the medical.

Which is really insane. Maybe it's just because I live in the PNW but this seems to be an issue that affects nearly everyone when it gets dark at 4:10PM and no one has seen the sun in a few months. I'm happy I have outlets to avoid it but being aware that it is an issue is really important and it takes a really strong routine with a lot of exercise to keep from being affected by the seasonal change.
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Dude, that is the truth about weather up there. Lived in the NW for 80% of my life. Always wondered why the low feelings and beer drinking kicked into high gear just before Thanksgiving.

Then I moved down to where I’m at now, sunny and 60-70 for the majority of days. Even when a three day rain system comes through, I get that eery sense of low due to no sun. A day after the sun comes back out and I’m right back on track with outdoor activities. I even watch what I say to Mom this time of year, don’t tell her I went for a surf or a beach run while she is getting pelted with rain and sometimes chipping frost off the car.

However, every 1st of the month it feels like a rain cloud over my head with rent and utilities due 😬

Not sure where my long term home will be since weather is the only real upside to living down here imho, but it won’t be Oregon since I have escaped.
 
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JDean3204 said:
Dude, that is the truth about weather up there. Lived in the NW for 80% of my life. Always wondered why the low feelings and beer drinking kicked into high gear just before Thanksgiving.

Then I moved down to where I’m at now, sunny and 60-70 for the majority of days. Even when a three day rain system comes through, I get that eery sense of low due to no sun. A day after the sun comes back out and I’m right back on track with outdoor activities. I even watch what I say to Mom this time of year, don’t tell her I went for a surf or a beach run while she is getting pelted with rain and sometimes chipping frost off the car.

However, every 1st of the month it feels like a rain cloud over my head with rent and utilities due 😬

Not sure where my long term home will be since weather is the only real upside to living down here imho, but it won’t be Oregon since I have escaped.
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Yeah it is definitely a mindset shift for me. I joined a gym for the first time in my life and I'm way more focused on diet than I've ever been. It's super hard to stay in shape and not put on weight. I don't know if its a symptom of getting old or the fact I can't just go for a 4 hour mountain bike ride whenever I want.

The recent blow down of trees on the trails has maybe been a good thing despite how much I hate it. Nothing quite as satisfying as cutting out the deadfall. Then cleaning it up by hand and finally clearing it back to perfect with a rake. I'd rather be riding but today the trails were frozen with light freeze thaw.
 
If you think the FAA is bad, come and have a tour of our world dealing with naval aviation medicine. FAA looks positively "progressive" in comparison. Everyone everywhere in this world who wears a set of wings on their chest knows that you can't seek mental health treatment. At least not if related to a diagnosis (I have, to be fair, participated in marriage counseling paid for by Uncle Sam). One of my good friends, who spent 9 months living in the boat bunk beneath mine, who was probably my most significant mentor of my career, put a bullet in his own head last January. I had to ride the actual jumpseat on our metal to IAD because the night before we had the door blow out and if you wanted to non rev that weekend in the cabin, it would have to wait a week. He had just finished a successful commanding officer tour, leading his squadron on the first deployment supporting Western Europe during the Ukraine invasion. Former TOPGUN instructor. A perfect career, with thousands of meaningful hours, and a bright future. That all ended, in my opinion, because he knew he couldn't seek the treatment he needed and remain on flight status. I was in the room with another one of our squadron mattes last summer (who slept across from me that deployment in the other upper bunk), with the "air boss" (the 3 star admiral in charge of naval aviation) who had been our air wing commander during the deployment we all shared together. Our group of squadron pilots kept in touch for the next 10 years, daily, via a text chat, and eventually a WhatsApp chat when that became a thing. My other buddy told the boss, point blank, "the navy killed Doug, what the • are we doing to fix this?" I was really proud of him for that.
 
IMHO the airline business even apart from the issues with not being able to seek help is just crushingly toxic for mental health. The odd hours, time zone changes, difficulty getting proper diet and exercise, time away from family for sure. Also, and this might be partly my personality, but I don’t flourish when flying with a new random weirdo every 4 days. Every other job I’ve worked you a get a lot more opportunities to build relationships even with coworkers who piss you off.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
something something getting what we deserve.

Anyway, yeah. Also the only behavioral health tool the FAA has is HIMS, which means all problems are substance abuse problems. Never mind what caused one to turn to the bottle.
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And also assumes anyone with a mental health issue also has a substance abuse issue.
Roger Roger said:
IMHO the airline business even apart from the issues with not being able to seek help is just crushingly toxic for mental health. The odd hours, time zone changes, difficulty getting proper diet and exercise for sure. Also, and this might be partly my personality, but I don’t flourish when flying with a new random weirdo every 4 days. Every other job I’ve worked you a get a lot more opportunities to build relationships even with coworkers who piss you off.
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It can be a remarkably lonely life at times. I enjoy some solid alone time (go ahead, make the jokes), and usually prefer to go off and do my own thing, but there's times where it can really weigh on you more than others when you're stuck in a hotel in a strange city by yourself.
 
JordanD said:
It can be a remarkably lonely life at times. I enjoy some solid alone time (go ahead, make the jokes), and usually prefer to go off and do my own thing, but there's times where it can really weigh on you more than others when you're stuck in a hotel in a strange city by yourself.
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I’ve been here long enough that I’m starting to repeat captains and so far they’ve been the cool ones. Wouldn’t think it meeting socially awkward me but it made my day flying with this last captain again and asking her how her dogs are doing etc.
 
JordanD said:
It can be a remarkably lonely life at times. I enjoy some solid alone time (go ahead, make the jokes), and usually prefer to go off and do my own thing, but there's times where it can really weigh on you more than others when you're stuck in a hotel in a strange city by yourself.
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The sound of the hotel room door closing can be the loudest in the world. No, I mean rhetorically, not literally.
 
Roger Roger said:
Also, and this might be partly my personality, but I don’t flourish when flying with a new random weirdo every 4 days. Every other job I’ve worked you a get a lot more opportunities to build relationships even with coworkers who piss you off.
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One of a number of reasons why single pilot flying is king. The crew flying I do part time is out of requirement for the op, not from any desire for crew ops. The above being one of the reasons. :)
 
///AMG said:
If you think the FAA is bad, come and have a tour of our world dealing with naval aviation medicine. FAA looks positively "progressive" in comparison. Everyone everywhere in this world who wears a set of wings on their chest knows that you can't seek mental health treatment. At least not if related to a diagnosis (I have, to be fair, participated in marriage counseling paid for by Uncle Sam). One of my good friends, who spent 9 months living in the boat bunk beneath mine, who was probably my most significant mentor of my career, put a bullet in his own head last January. I had to ride the actual jumpseat on our metal to IAD because the night before we had the door blow out and if you wanted to non rev that weekend in the cabin, it would have to wait a week. He had just finished a successful commanding officer tour, leading his squadron on the first deployment supporting Western Europe during the Ukraine invasion. Former TOPGUN instructor. A perfect career, with thousands of meaningful hours, and a bright future. That all ended, in my opinion, because he knew he couldn't seek the treatment he needed and remain on flight status. I was in the room with another one of our squadron mattes last summer (who slept across from me that deployment in the other upper bunk), with the "air boss" (the 3 star admiral in charge of naval aviation) who had been our air wing commander during the deployment we all shared together. Our group of squadron pilots kept in touch for the next 10 years, daily, via a text chat, and eventually a WhatsApp chat when that became a thing. My other buddy told the boss, point blank, "the navy killed Doug, what the • are we doing to fix this?" I was really proud of him for that.
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Thank you for sharing, it’s really helpful that we talk about the issue especially because the FAA isn’t doing crap about it other than, I don’t know, low-hanging fruit about baggage fees that pleases BIlly Joe Bob that something is happening.

Let’s keep talking.
 
Roger Roger said:
I’ve been here long enough that I’m starting to repeat captains and so far they’ve been the cool ones. Wouldn’t think it meeting socially awkward me but it made my day flying with this last captain again and asking her how her dogs are doing etc.
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The one downside to going up in seniority and the CA side staying relatively stagnant is I actually got in a pretty decent routine of flying with the same CAs pretty regularly that I liked. Next month's schedule is a lot of "I haven't flown with this person".
 
JordanD said:
The one downside to going up in seniority and the CA side staying relatively stagnant is I actually got in a pretty decent routine of flying with the same CAs pretty regularly that I liked. Next month's schedule is a lot of "I haven't flown with this person".
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please be normal please be normal please be normal please be —

“Oh! Bainbridge Island? That’s near Seattle. How did you survive your commute to the airport with all the homeless?”

…

“It’s gonna be a long few days.”

(This is a true story.)
 
///AMG said:
If you think the FAA is bad, come and have a tour of our world dealing with naval aviation medicine. FAA looks positively "progressive" in comparison. Everyone everywhere in this world who wears a set of wings on their chest knows that you can't seek mental health treatment. At least not if related to a diagnosis (I have, to be fair, participated in marriage counseling paid for by Uncle Sam). One of my good friends, who spent 9 months living in the boat bunk beneath mine, who was probably my most significant mentor of my career, put a bullet in his own head last January. I had to ride the actual jumpseat on our metal to IAD because the night before we had the door blow out and if you wanted to non rev that weekend in the cabin, it would have to wait a week. He had just finished a successful commanding officer tour, leading his squadron on the first deployment supporting Western Europe during the Ukraine invasion. Former TOPGUN instructor. A perfect career, with thousands of meaningful hours, and a bright future. That all ended, in my opinion, because he knew he couldn't seek the treatment he needed and remain on flight status. I was in the room with another one of our squadron mattes last summer (who slept across from me that deployment in the other upper bunk), with the "air boss" (the 3 star admiral in charge of naval aviation) who had been our air wing commander during the deployment we all shared together. Our group of squadron pilots kept in touch for the next 10 years, daily, via a text chat, and eventually a WhatsApp chat when that became a thing. My other buddy told the boss, point blank, "the navy killed Doug, what the • are we doing to fix this?" I was really proud of him for that.
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I'm really sorry. That's terrible.

I had a wake up call with aviation and mental health pretty early in my career during the worst of the economic turmoil and airline furloughs that occurred during the lost decade. Growing up in the Bay Area there were always a lot of UAL pilots around. It was just kind of part of the community. One of my friends owned a bike shop. I didn't know his brother was a UAL pilot. He called me up one day and said he needed my help. His brother had committed suicide. He asked me to help him with taking care of his brother's property. I was so young and infatuated with aviation at the time I thought nothing like that could affect me. It always got me thinking though.
 
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