Management pilots support cargo cutout

[DE727UPS]

http://www.ipapilot.org/letters/ChiefPilotsLetter.pdf

"As the Chief Pilots of America’s largest all-cargo airlines, we are writing to explain why
changing the flight and duty time rules that apply to all-cargo carriers is a bad idea and that doing
so could actually make our operations less safe and put our pilots at risk.

The Federal AviationAdministration (FAA) has carefully analyzed changing the rest rules and found virtually zero
benefit in applying the passenger fatigue rules to all-cargo carriers. Additionally, on March 24,
2016, the US Court of Appeals denied the Independent Pilots Association's Petition to change the
rules and found that the FAA acted reasonably in its decision to exempt all-cargo pilots from Part
117 passenger pilot rest rules. However despite this, we understand Senator Boxer has offered
amendment #3489 that would apply the passenger carrier rules to our very safe all-cargo
industry. We have been working in all-cargo operations around the globe for a combined 121 years of
experience between us, and during that time we have come to understand the effects of fatigue as
well as the ways to prevent or mitigate that fatigue. Put simply, measures used to prevent fatigue
must be different for passenger carriers than they are for cargo carriers because our work
schedules are different. We fly fewer legs, have longer layovers. and have better rest
opportunities on our trips, including while technically “on duty” waiting for our nightly sorts to
occur. Resting during the loading of aircraft has a dramatic impact on our alertness. This rest,
our longer layover times, and the ability to call in fatigued, makes our operation and how we deal
with fatigue at night a proven success. We typically start fewer trips per month, thus affording us
better opportunities to be fully rested before we fly and better opportunities to recover thereafter.
Perhaps most significantly, we fly an average of 34 hours per month (express segment) and 45.5
hours per month (heavy freight segment) – while passenger carrier pilots fly approximately 60
hours each month. Over the years, we have capitalized on the unique opportunities for fatigue risk management
systems that offer scientifically sound protections on top of existing FAA regulations. These
systems are tailored to the flying we do, and they help keep us rested and safe. Imposing rules
that are clearly designed for passenger airline operations on all-cargo carriers would be illadvised
and unwarranted. We are proud to work for airlines that have gone above and beyond the requirements of existing
cargo regulations and that are at the forefront of fatigue risk management research. Rest assured
that, as pilots, we do not take any aircraft safety issue lightly. We simply ask that, if faced with
misguided attempts to apply passenger-centric Part 117 rules to cargo airlines, you consider our
strong belief that such efforts would be counterproductive and vote no on Senator Boxer’s
amendment #3489. Thank you for your time and consideration of this important safety issue."

I like this part "and have better rest opportunities on our trips, including while technically “on duty” waiting for our nightly sorts to occur. Resting during the loading of aircraft has a dramatic impact on our alertness."

You can't make this stuff up. I did some night sort stuff through SDF a couple weeks ago and had two hours of this new "cargo cutout rest". Didn't get any sleep, sadly to say. Something must be wrong with me.

 

[Inverted]

This is the very reason that I am scared of ever being in a management position. I highly doubt they really feel that way, but rather they are getting marching orders from above. I don't ever want to be in a position at a company where somebody is making me say things I don't believe in.

 

[ChasenSFO]

This is the very reason that I am scared of ever being in a management position. I highly doubt they really feel that way, but rather they are getting marching orders from above. I don't ever want to be in a position at a company where somebody is making me say things I don't believe in.

Agreed.

Though I personally think a line should be drawn when you're speaking out to hurt the profession as a whole, not just company matters. Disgusting.

 

[A Life Aloft]

http://www.ipapilot.org/letters/ChiefPilotsLetter.pdf

"As the Chief Pilots of America’s largest all-cargo airlines, we are writing to explain why
changing the flight and duty time rules that apply to all-cargo carriers is a bad idea and that doing
so could actually make our operations less safe and put our pilots at risk.

The Federal AviationAdministration (FAA) has carefully analyzed changing the rest rules and found virtually zero
benefit in applying the passenger fatigue rules to all-cargo carriers. Additionally, on March 24,
2016, the US Court of Appeals denied the Independent Pilots Association's Petition to change the
rules and found that the FAA acted reasonably in its decision to exempt all-cargo pilots from Part
117 passenger pilot rest rules. However despite this, we understand Senator Boxer has offered
amendment #3489 that would apply the passenger carrier rules to our very safe all-cargo
industry. We have been working in all-cargo operations around the globe for a combined 121 years of
experience between us, and during that time we have come to understand the effects of fatigue as
well as the ways to prevent or mitigate that fatigue. Put simply, measures used to prevent fatigue
must be different for passenger carriers than they are for cargo carriers because our work
schedules are different. We fly fewer legs, have longer layovers. and have better rest
opportunities on our trips, including while technically “on duty” waiting for our nightly sorts to
occur. Resting during the loading of aircraft has a dramatic impact on our alertness. This rest,
our longer layover times, and the ability to call in fatigued, makes our operation and how we deal
with fatigue at night a proven success. We typically start fewer trips per month, thus affording us
better opportunities to be fully rested before we fly and better opportunities to recover thereafter.
Perhaps most significantly, we fly an average of 34 hours per month (express segment) and 45.5
hours per month (heavy freight segment) – while passenger carrier pilots fly approximately 60
hours each month. Over the years, we have capitalized on the unique opportunities for fatigue risk management
systems that offer scientifically sound protections on top of existing FAA regulations. These
systems are tailored to the flying we do, and they help keep us rested and safe. Imposing rules
that are clearly designed for passenger airline operations on all-cargo carriers would be illadvised
and unwarranted. We are proud to work for airlines that have gone above and beyond the requirements of existing
cargo regulations and that are at the forefront of fatigue risk management research. Rest assured
that, as pilots, we do not take any aircraft safety issue lightly. We simply ask that, if faced with
misguided attempts to apply passenger-centric Part 117 rules to cargo airlines, you consider our
strong belief that such efforts would be counterproductive and vote no on Senator Boxer’s
amendment #3489. Thank you for your time and consideration of this important safety issue."

I like this part "and have better rest opportunities on our trips, including while technically “on duty” waiting for our nightly sorts to occur. Resting during the loading of aircraft has a dramatic impact on our alertness."

You can't make this stuff up. I did some night sort stuff through SDF a couple weeks ago and had two hours of this new "cargo cutout rest". Didn't get any sleep, sadly to say. Something must be wrong with me.

Pilots at pax carriers obviously deserve decent rest/duty/fatigue rules and also not to have to transport those pesky lithium batteries, because after all, their lives and health are far more important.

 

[NickH]

Agreed.

Though I personally think a line should be drawn when you're speaking out to hurt the profession as a whole, not just company matters. Disgusting.

The ability to draw such lines is not a trait which endears oneself to management. That's not how you get to be a chief pilot.

 

[Inverted]

Agreed.

Though I personally think a line should be drawn when you're speaking out to hurt the profession as a whole, not just company matters. Disgusting.

Honestly there are people that think that way. I see it often at my company. Hell there is a chick on FB who is a new hire at the top ACMI who has no intention of fighting the cargo carve out, she told me so. You can't make this crap up.

The ability to draw such lines is not a trait which endears oneself to management. That's not how you get to be a chief pilot.

Bingo.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

That whole thing sounds like desperation.

People are people, planes are planes. What is carried inside the aircraft has no bearing on how rested the flight crew is or should be.

 

[Tommay85]

Those chief pilots are below amphibian poop at this point. Below scabs. They are no longer leaders at this point and are the enemy.

I would no longer have respect for any chief pilot that feels this way. They've failed as a leader harder than any captain has ever failed as a leader. Blacklisted...

 

[Tommay85]

This is the very reason that I am scared of ever being in a management position. I highly doubt they really feel that way, but rather they are getting marching orders from above. I don't ever want to be in a position at a company where somebody is making me say things I don't believe in.

Eh, if you're a leader and not a "boss", you can get enough people behind you to get what you want. A little politics, and a little respect. Which may not be the environment at these places. I don't know...

 

[Tommay85]

The ability to draw such lines is not a trait which endears oneself to management. That's not how you get to be a chief pilot.

Sure...

 

[JeppUpdater]

Hell there is a chick on FB who is a new hire at the top ACMI who has no intention of fighting the cargo carve out, she told me so. You can't make this crap up.

Is it sad I can read that and immediately know exactly who you're referring to?

 

[Inverted]

Is it sad I can read that and immediately know exactly who you're referring to?

Is it sad that I knew who I was referring to at every job I have had as I was typing? Lol. All companies have them, it's quite sad.

 

[Inverted]

Eh, if you're a leader and not a "boss", you can get enough people behind you to get what you want. A little politics, and a little respect. Which may not be the environment at these places. I don't know...

You are the lowest management personnel at your company (I don't mean that in a demeaning way, just that on are basically the first tier of management). You're a line pilot with some office duties. You don't have to sit at HQ and pump the company "culture" down the pilot groups throats. You're in a much better position to do what you want culture wise in PR, as long as you're getting the job done. Trust me I knew the DFW ACP and she was removed from the position because she didn't fit inside the box they wanted. If I had a dollar for every time my ACP told me something that comlpletely dumfounded me, or every time an upper management person would try to push a view or value that was completely anti employee or unsafe, I would have stayed there because I would have made more money than I do now.

Even at my current job we have the typical Union, anti union bickering on our company message board, and there are guys in management who would, and do, fully support company positions that go against progression, safety or other things. You can't be upper management at a large company and be in agreement with the work force you are in charge of. We are constantly wanting more time off, more benefits, more money, while they are constantly trying to figure ways to trim expenses, cut costs and increase profits for the company.

 

[Tommay85]

You are the lowest management personnel at your company (I don't mean that in a demeaning way, just that on are basically the first tier of management). You're a line pilot with some office duties. You don't have to sit at HQ and pump the company "culture" down the pilot groups throats. You're in a much better position to do what you want culture wise in PR, as long as you're getting the job done. Trust me I knew the DFW ACP and she was removed from the position because she didn't fit inside the box they wanted. If I had a dollar for every time my ACP told me something that comlpletely dumfounded me, or every time an upper management person would try to push a view or value that was completely anti employee or unsafe, I would have stayed there because I would have made more money than I do now.

Even at my current job we have the typical Union, anti union bickering on our company message board, and there are guys in management who would, and do, fully support company positions that go against progression, safety or other things. You can't be upper management at a large company and be in agreement with the work force you are in charge of. We are constantly wanting more time off, more benefits, more money, while they are constantly trying to figure ways to trim expenses, cut costs and increase profits for the company.

Oh I'm aware and there are plenty of disagreements.

I just feel like the first layer of management should be on the side of the people they, uh, manage. Easier said than done, but this letter would be a kick in the nuts to me if the DO sent something like this out.

 

[mastermags]

You are the lowest management personnel at your company (I don't mean that in a demeaning way, just that on are basically the first tier of management). You're a line pilot with some office duties. You don't have to sit at HQ and pump the company "culture" down the pilot groups throats. You're in a much better position to do what you want culture wise in PR, as long as you're getting the job done.

I thought one of the big problems at UPS was that their management pilots were, in fact, not line pilots at all.

 

[Inverted]

I thought one of the big problems at UPS was that their management pilots were, in fact, not line pilots at all.

Well, they have had some issues with that in the past lol.

 

[Inverted]

Oh I'm aware and there are plenty of disagreements.

I just feel like the first layer of management should be on the side of the people they, uh, manage. Easier said than done, but this letter would be a kick in the nuts to me if the DO sent something like this out.

Couldn't agree more. The first layer should be on the side of the people. The problem becomes when siding with your employees conflicts with an agenda that management is expecting you to support. My guess with your base is that if the mothership doesn't get calls with issues, you can do whatever you want, which is how it should be.

 

[obx]

Sadly ironic that the guys that get to sleep in their own bed and be with their families every night write a letter saying that the guys that are up all night assuming the very real risks brought on by fatigue are well rested. I'm with everyone that says these guys are scum. They've totally sold out and that's the sign of a "manager" that has lost sight of what their employees need to be safe and effective.

 

[mikecweb]

Hell there is a chick on FB who is a new hire at the top ACMI who has no intention of fighting the cargo carve out, she told me so. You can't make this crap up.

Grrrr

 

[Inverted]

Grrrr

Your co-worker. She said the same thing about voting the union on at TMC. Some people just love abuse and don't want to make things better. "They pay me to fly a 767 which is amazing, I don't care how much it is." Some people need to find other hobbies.