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Hiboglossi said:
Interesting, I thought I remembered hearing about a flow down with American and its wholly owned regionals. Did it used to be a thing and is no longer in the contract?

I know when Compass was founded, there was some sort of flow down provision where in the event of furloughs at Northwest, they would flow down to Compass until they were recalled, and Compass pilots would be furloughed to accommodate them.
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I would have to ask some former USAir and AA people, but I've never heard of any flow back since 2008. Only thing I was ever aware of was the J4J stuff and that was before my time. Maybe @BobDDuck or @EDUC8-or could answer that.
 
Hiboglossi said:
Interesting, I thought I remembered hearing about a flow down with American and its wholly owned regionals. Did it used to be a thing and is no longer in the contract?

I know when Compass was founded, there was some sort of flow down provision where in the event of furloughs at Northwest, they would flow down to Compass until they were recalled, and Compass pilots would be furloughed to accommodate them.
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This all sounds really complicated. How about we just don't have regional airlines?
 
Hiboglossi said:
Interesting, I thought I remembered hearing about a flow down with American and its wholly owned regionals. Did it used to be a thing and is no longer in the contract?

I know when Compass was founded, there was some sort of flow down provision where in the event of furloughs at Northwest, they would flow down to Compass until they were recalled, and Compass pilots would be furloughed to accommodate them.
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There was a flow back from AA to Eagle back in the day. It’s no longer a thing.
 

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DeltaAlphaNovember said:
I would have to ask some former USAir and AA people, but I've never heard of any flow back since 2008. Only thing I was ever aware of was the J4J stuff and that was before my time. Maybe @BobDDuck or @EDUC8-or could answer that.
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Flow down was how the J4J deals worked in the USAir system. For each new jet delivered to the regional partner, half of the seats would go to flowing down, furloughed USAirways pilots. Also, Mid Atlantic (prior to Republic taking it over) was entirely staffed with flow down pilots.

In theory there was to be flow up as part of the same deal, but it never happened. When flow up was finally offered years later, there was no flow down in the agreement.
 
DeltaAlphaNovember said:
I would have to ask some former USAir and AA people, but I've never heard of any flow back since 2008. Only thing I was ever aware of was the J4J stuff and that was before my time. Maybe @BobDDuck or @EDUC8-or could answer that.
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Im offended..... But since you didnt ask, There isnt a mechanism for flow back in the current flow through agreements.
I really wouldnt call j4j a flown down program either as their was no flow up and it included airlines that werent wholly owned. Also, MidAtlantic was staffed with furloughed mainline pilot as well as pilots called up/offered a position from Dh8 ALG/PDT once they ran out of furloughed pilots. If you ask one of those ALG/PDT pilots, if their being honest, they really went to work for MidAtlantic and didnt know the long term plans of mainline integration.
 
Also, even though the Fedex mgmt team has drawn the line between, "Hey dont work here anymore, go work at this regional"...I think the AA side of it is to capture pilots who take early retirement lump sums. The early out guy can double dip and AA gets someone who doesnt mind flying an RJ for a year or 2. This deal has been offered to UPS as well and probably made to fedex in anticipation of earlyouts coming.
 
Kingairer said:
Also, even though the Fedex mgmt team has drawn the line between, "Hey dont work here anymore, go work at this regional"...I think the AA side of it is to capture pilots who take early retirement lump sums. The early out guy can double dip and AA gets someone who doesnt mind flying an RJ for a year or 2. This deal has been offered to UPS as well and probably made to fedex in anticipation of earlyouts coming.
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It seems like this option could being appealing to a few folks but this presentation is horrible. As you mentioned, a sufficient severance package could unload some senior guys that are looking at retirement.

Wondering if you could package this so low seniority guys could maintain seniority and trickle back if they please.

Regardless, this just looks ugly and amateurish.
 
BobDDuck said:
Flow down was how the J4J deals worked in the USAir system. For each new jet delivered to the regional partner, half of the seats would go to flowing down, furloughed USAirways pilots. Also, Mid Atlantic (prior to Republic taking it over) was entirely staffed with flow down pilots.

In theory there was to be flow up as part of the same deal, but it never happened. When flow up was finally offered years later, there was no flow down in the agreement.
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I seem to recall a pretty ugly deal for the MidAtlantic Pilots that were there when it was part of the USAir certificate. As I recall, they got kinda hosed at the US/AWA merger, went to court, and lost. Not 100% sure of the details.

SJ still has flowdown in it's Contract.
 
Richman said:
I seem to recall a pretty ugly deal for the MidAtlantic Pilots that were there when it was part of the USAir certificate. As I recall, they got kinda hosed at the US/AWA merger, went to court, and lost. Not 100% sure of the details.

SJ still has flowdown in it's Contract.
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Thats a complicated answer as well because not all MDA pilots came from the same place. Also, if you ask a USAir East pilot, they all got screwed, but they ran out the clock and got a re-do and none of it came to fruition in the end.
 
Kingairer said:
Thats a complicated answer as well because not all MDA pilots came from the same place. Also, if you ask a USAir East pilot, they all got screwed, but they ran out the clock and got a re-do and none of it came to fruition in the end.
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Yep, that's what I remember. I know some wholly owned pilots went to MA, and it didn't work out as well as they would have hoped.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
It seems like this option could being appealing to a few folks but this presentation is horrible. As you mentioned, a sufficient severance package could unload some senior guys that are looking at retirement.

Wondering if you could package this so low seniority guys could maintain seniority and trickle back if they please.

Regardless, this just looks ugly and amateurish.
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Thats on FedEx and not AA.
 
Richman said:
Yep, that's what I remember. I know some wholly owned pilots went to MA, and it didn't work out as well as they would have hoped.
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No, the WO guys made it pretty well. They went from DH8 pilots to the mainline seniority list, even though they didn't realize it until later, and this was back when it actually meant something to get on at mainline. They were furloughed after MDA was spun off, but were given jobs at the new j4J carrier as well (just like every other airline furloughed recently hired pilots) and had recall rights back to USAirways mainline. So once the US/AW list happened they all of the sudden found themselves on the East Pilot list. Right now they are around 6000 seniority. The real burn was the company wanted to MDA to be USAirways in some case, but in others, not. Some pilots who were furloughed got caught up in that, and later were stuck in a halfway between "were they flying mainline or were they not" situation. Its all ancient history anymore
 
Based on my sources PSA has actually sent out many CJOs due to this "deal." Not a crazy ton but apparently some people are seeing this as an opportunity. Not exactly sure who would do this though.
 
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