Yea but you also finished your egg McMuffin while an engine was on fire or something. CFA makes a far more superior and biggoted breakfast sandwich. Tier1, Breakfast Judgment 11.Even my most epic FCRs and ASAPs are basically responded to with "Cool man, thanks for writing".
I certainly don't have writers cramp any more!
Like when I booted an LCA off the jumpseat a few years ago, talked to my LCA mentor and his response was "well, how much do you like paperwork?" and never heard a thing about it.
Land after learning about reg violation?
- Thread starter propsync
- Start date
121.311
(b) Except as provided in this paragraph, each person on board an airplane operated under this part shall occupy an approved seat or berth with a separate safety belt properly secured about him or her during movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing. A safety belt provided for the occupant of a seat may not be used by more than one person who has reached his or her second birthday. Notwithstanding the preceding requirements, a child may:
(1) Be held by an adult who is occupying an approved seat or berth, provided the child has not reached his or her second birthday and the child does not occupy or use any restraining device
You are now about to violate FARs knowingly.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
The Court of Jetcareers is aware of the content of 121.311(b) and thanks you for emphasizing them.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
You lead a reasonably boring existence, I see.Even my most epic FCRs and ASAPs are basically responded to with "Cool man, thanks for writing".
I certainly don't have writers cramp any more!
Like when I booted an LCA off the jumpseat a few years ago, talked to my LCA mentor and his response was "well, how much do you like paperwork?" and never heard a thing about it.
People seem to be in denial about what exactly is written in the FARs so I thought it best to paraphrase the relevant section. I'm just trying to learn.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Please tell me you didn't divert over this. Please.
I didn't do anything, I'm not a Captain. It does however sound some of you might be willing to throw your careers away over it. Setting that a side for a moment, just the safety aspect of it and doing nothing about it.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Now that I have that out of my system...
Let me assure you that in the event the Captain does something "wrong," you, First Officer Propsync, will get to go with him to the Big Brown Desk to explain it. But there won't be any explaining on this...unless y'all made a mountain out of a molehill, in which case, well.
I repeat, this is not intentional FAR noncompliance on the part of the crew. Intentionality requires knowledge of the noncompliance to start with. Once alerted to it, there's nothing that you can do to fix it enroute; no sane Part 121 airline (or their CMO, for that matter) is going to have a problem with your continuing to the destination, filing an ASAP and maybe an IOR, and forgetting about it.
Now that I have that out of my system...
Let me assure you that in the event the Captain does something "wrong," you, First Officer Propsync, will get to go with him to the Big Brown Desk to explain it. But there won't be any explaining on this...unless y'all made a mountain out of a molehill, in which case, well.
I repeat, this is not intentional FAR noncompliance on the part of the crew. Intentionality requires knowledge of the noncompliance to start with. Once alerted to it, there's nothing that you can do to fix it enroute; no sane Part 121 airline (or their CMO, for that matter) is going to have a problem with your continuing to the destination, filing an ASAP and maybe an IOR, and forgetting about it.
Oh yes it is intentional, whatever happens next is on your shoulders alone if I'm your First Officer, I would have spoke up. I'm trying to be civil here but you are obviously mocking me. You are now knowingly not seating that 4 year old child in a seat. There is a solution here where everyone gets a seat with a seat belt. You think a passenger has never sat in a FA jumpseat before for something like a broken seat? You think a flight has never done a precautionary diversion before for items way less serious then this? Are you really going to allow the aircraft to fly through moderate turbulence in my scenario and simply keep your fingers crossed that his neck or nose doesn't get broken? What is your first duty?
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
sigh
Looks like the FAA is looking into a similar incident right now on United.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/united-airlines-forces-mom-hold-toddler-entire-flight-n779731
I guess the flight attendant just shrugged and said oh-well.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/united-airlines-forces-mom-hold-toddler-entire-flight-n779731
I guess the flight attendant just shrugged and said oh-well.
That is an entirely different scenario. Your post history indicates you like arguing hypotheticals. May I suggest a hobby, or scotch, or a scotch hobby?
Dphoenix
Love lasagna, hate mondays
I'm on the ASAP committee at my airline, and I don't think "intentional" means what you think it does. I personally would vote to accept this ASAP if they continued to their destination. Intentional to me in this case would be the flight attendants raise an issue with it before takeoff and ask if it's okay, and the captain said "yeah we gotta get that door closed on time! i need mah profit sharing!!!!" and then tried to file an ASAP about it.
I'm posting in the "You're The Captain" Forum. This is the right place for these discussions is it not?
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Bringo.
Also, there is not enough threat of certificate action in the world for me to put a passenger in an FA crew seat.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
This is not the same fact pattern, then.
The Flight Attendants knew, or reasonably should have known, prior to departure that the occupant in question had passed his second birthday.
And that makes it an entirely different kettle of fish.
That's good to know. In my view not getting in trouble is important obviously but so is the safety of the hypothetical passenger.
msmspilot
Well-Known Member
So what are you going to do? Not land? There is no way to avoid the landing. The regulations you quoted say an "approved" seatbelt, which arguably isn't an FA jumpseat (not that the planes I fly have a spare one anyway). Declaring an emergency literally does nothing to make the situation more safe.
And your less serious diversions might have happened, but I'd be finding out how close the captain's girlfriend lived to the airport they diverted to.
You are not "intentionally" violating a reg when the discovery is after takeoff. As the saying goes, landings are mandatory.
You have gotten the same answer from everyone who has replied. Some, very experienced airline captains. Interesting hypothetical, but there's nothing you can do about it in the air.
Why not?
