Land after learning about reg violation?

[propsync]

You're the Captain on a flight cruising at 36,000 feet and learn from the flight attendants while at cruise that a reg violation occurred prior to push back. They just became aware of it themselves. It turns out after some friendly conversation, a passengers lap child is really 4 years old. There are no other passenger seats available to sit.

After checking with your dispatcher, the decision ultimately comes down to what you want to do.

Obviously an ASAP will be filed later, but more importantly, what do you do right now at 36,000 feet?

Do you-

A.) Continue on to your destination and land normally, file a report
B.) Declare an emergency and land at the nearest suitable airport
C.) Work with your dispatcher and amend your destination to a nearest suitable airport
D.) Put a passenger in an open flight attendant jumpseat to open up a seat up for the child
E.) ??

 

[Dphoenix]

A, personally. The problem is really on landing. At cruise, it's a bit late to do anything. B makes no sense, C makes no sense to me, D is busting another reg to try to get around this one unless you have a qualified person such as a nonrevving FA from your airline. Ultimately, in flight, this is hearsay as well.. we're gonna continue to our destination and sort it out there.

 

[BobDDuck]

Go land at your destination airport. File a ASAP. Go home (or the hotel) and don't worry about it. I don't think I'd even bother bringing dispatch in to the loop on this one until after I landed unless I was really bored and felt like typppppping on the FMS keeeeeyboarrrrrdd. (that's a CRJ joke)

What exactly would you be declaring an emergency about? Too many passengers on the plane?

What would going to the nearest suitable airport accomplish? The "safety" issue is going to be on landing if anything so where you land doesn't really matter so much.

I wouldn't put a revenue passenger in an extra FA seat but I suppose if there was a non rev who was approved to sit in the FA jumpseat you could move them there and give the kid the extra seat but it seems like a lot of hassle.

 

[Beefy McGee]

CCCCCCRRRRJJJJJJ jjjjjjoookeeee haaaaahhhhhhhhaa

 

[derg]

A.

File an ASAP and like The Duck said, forget about it. I wouldn't even check the 'followup requested' box.

I think I wrote two ASAPs a month when I was new, hell, I haven't filed one for two years.

 

[Cptnchia]

I think I wrote two ASAPs a month when I was new, hell, I haven't filed one for two years.

Lucky you! My goal is just one per rotation. The 88 is just full of surprises.

 

[propsync]

As you are cruising along, there is weather in the area. Its getting bumpy. ATC and other aircraft are reporting moderate turbulance ahead. Does this make any difference in your decisions?

 

[mikecweb]

As you are cruising along, there is weather in the area. Its getting bumpy. ATC and other aircraft are reporting moderate turbulance ahead. Does this make any difference in your decisions?

No.

 

[Cptnchia]

As you are cruising along, there is weather in the area. Its getting bumpy. ATC and other aircraft are reporting moderate turbulance ahead. Does this make any difference in your decisions?

Nope.

 

[derg]

Lucky you! My goal is just one per rotation. The 88 is just full of surprises.

I know. You guys make the best "Wait 'til you see this!" tapes!

 

[derg]

As you are cruising along, there is weather in the area. Its getting bumpy. ATC and other aircraft are reporting moderate turbulance ahead. Does this make any difference in your decisions?

Nope!

After (if?) I was notified about the situation, it would influence exactly zero of my upcoming inflight decisions.

 

[propsync]

Will you not be knowingly violating 121.311 ? During takeoff you couldn't have known about it. But now you know before landing.

 

[Dphoenix]

I can't just pull over. No. It doesn't matter. If this passenger actually did this (and it's hearsay, it'd be odd for people to just fess up midflight, and obviously the gate agent was fooled so this kid isn't much bigger than a 2 year old, which, is already a lap rocket meat missile anyway.
But yeah, we're filing our ASAP and moving on.

 

[mikecweb]

Will you not be knowingly violating 121.311 ? During takeoff you couldn't have known about it. But now you know before landing.

So you diverted and you're seeking justification from the internette?

 

[propsync]

I can't just pull over. No. It doesn't matter. If this passenger actually did this (and it's hearsay, it'd be odd for people to just fess up midflight, and obviously the gate agent was fooled so this kid isn't much bigger than a 2 year old, which, is already a lap rocket meat missile anyway.
But yeah, we're filing our ASAP and moving on.

You cannot have an ASAP accepted when you knowingly violate an FAR.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Will you not be knowingly violating 121.311 ? During takeoff you couldn't have known about it. But now you know before landing.

It doesn't matter where you land. You're going to be in violation anyway, might as well take the other passengers to the destination.

An emergency declaration will do nothing to absolve you in this case. There is, in this case, no emergency situation anyway: hooray, there's an unrestrained occupant over the age of 2 that above-wing ACS put aboard as a projectile-in-arms (the jerks - although a rather plausible situation). Declaring an emergency does nothing to solve or resolve the problem; you do not require priority handling and you need not violate any (further) operating rules to arise to the occasion.

You cannot have an ASAP accepted when you knowingly violate an FAR.

You did not willingly violate the FARs.

The above-wing ACS people did.

You and the InFlight crew became aware of the noncompliance.

You get to file an ASAP and possibly a CIOR/IOR/FCR/whatever-the-hell-your-airline-calls-it, some Operations Safety nerd gets to nerd out about it, you forget about it and that's that, for the most part.

Prematurely terminating the flight due to this would be rubbing salt in the wounds and a major passenger inconvenience event.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

A.) Continue on to your destination and land normally, file a report

Yes.

B.) Declare an emergency and land at the nearest suitable airport

Oh eff that.

C.) Work with your dispatcher and amend your destination to a nearest suitable airport

No.

D.) Put a passenger in an open flight attendant jumpseat to open up a seat up for the child

HELL no.

 

[derg]

Will you not be knowingly violating 121.311 ? During takeoff you couldn't have known about it. But now you know before landing.

The safest, most prudent course of action is continuing to the destination, filing an ASAP and then filing a report with the company as their process failed.

I would not divert or land short because of this issue. Hell, I'd have to think long and hard about even filing an ASAP, to tell the truth because if a company is going to go after me for someone else's failure, I probably need to seek other employment!

But seriously, if I wouldn't do a high speed abort for it, chances are its not worth diverting or landing short!

Your turn, @propsync, what happened?

 

[Autothrust Blue]

The safest, most prudent course of action is continuing to the destination, filing an ASAP and then filing a report with the company as their process failed.

I would not divert or land short because of this issue. Hell, I'd have to think long and hard about even filing an ASAP, to tell the truth because if a company is going to go after me for someone else's failure, I probably need to seek other employment!

But seriously, if I wouldn't do a high speed abort for it, chances are its not worth diverting or landing short.

It was not willful, intentional noncompliance on the part of the pilots, to be sure; once made aware of the noncompliance, proceed according to the safest and most logical course. The FAs may be in warmer water and I'd assume above-wing ACS would be in the hottest of the water.

Which is go to the destination, write your ASAP and your CIOR/FCR/IOR/Pipeline/whatever, take a poop, and fuggetaboutit.

 

[derg]

Even my most epic FCRs and ASAPs are basically responded to with "Cool man, thanks for writing".

I certainly don't have writers cramp any more!

Like when I booted an LCA off the jumpseat a few years ago, talked to my LCA mentor and his response was "well, how much do you like paperwork?" and never heard a thing about it.