KA200 Job Offer

[bidderswede]

61.51. If you are rated for the aircraft and are the sole manipulator of the controls, you may log that as PIC. It says nothing about endorsements. Endorsements are not ratings.

FAR 61.51

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in- command time only for that flight time during which that person --
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or (iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

Yes he's "rated" to fly Multi Engine aircraft as PIC, but there is an extra requirement for a pressurized aircraft with a service ceiling above 25,000'. Which is the High Alt endorsement.

The type certification for a BE-20, (King Air 200) doesn't require more than one pilot, neither does the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

He was going to log PIC on "empty legs", which means the flight will be conducted under Part 91.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Doesn't matter, there will still be a second pilot in the aircraft that is acting as PIC. An endorsement is not a rating. Read the regs a little more thoroughly specifically the ones about high altitude flight -- it reads: no pilot may act as PIC ... etc. There are differences between acting and logging.

 

[BillErvin]

The sim at FSI will work, but you also have to get the high altitude physiology training. That wasn't part of the course I took at FSI, but I got it eslewhere, showed it to the CFI there and he gave me the endorsement.

Check with the FSDO in Spokane, but I think you can still get the high altitude physiology training at Fairchild AFB. They have the Chamber and at one time, had people that could sign off the training.

Bill

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

FAR 61.51

(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in- command time only for that flight time during which that person --
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or (iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

Yes he's "rated" to fly Multi Engine aircraft as PIC, but there is an extra requirement for a pressurized aircraft with a service ceiling above 25,000'. Which is the High Alt endorsement.

The type certification for a BE-20, (King Air 200) doesn't require more than one pilot, neither does the regulations under which the flight is conducted.

He was going to log PIC on "empty legs", which means the flight will be conducted under Part 91.

The FAA has repeated many times there is a distinct difference in logging PIC versus acting as PIC. 61.51 is the ONLY regulation that deals with logging PIC. The high altitude endorsement you are referring to, in 61.31, says this:

g) Additional training required for operating pressurized aircraft capable of operating at high altitudes. (1) Except as provided in paragraph (g)(3) of this section, no person may act as pilot in command of a pressurized aircraft (an aircraft that has a service ceiling or maximum operating altitude, whichever is lower, above 25,000 feet MSL), unless that person has received and logged ground training from an authorized instructor and obtained an endorsement in the person's logbook or training record from an authorized instructor who certifies the person has satisfactorily accomplished the ground training.

If you are rated for the aircraft and are the sole manipulator of the controls, you may log it as PIC. Same goes for complex, high performance, tail wheel, etc...

 

[Propilot]

Part 135 regs require two pilots for all IFR passenger carrying operations. Size of the aircraft or type of operations matters not. This is the regulation that allows a pilot to log SIC as the second pilot.

Just because there is an option out there that allows some operators to fly single pilot ops (only after meeting certain specific conditions for both the airplane and the pilot!) does not make that second crewmember any less "required". The company is not required to fly that aircraft single pilot, they are allowed to. If they do not use the option to fly single pilot, than the second pilot is still a required crewmember by the regs.




Sure can. The pilot has almost certainly been trained and checked on use of the autopilot as part of the 135 requirements anyway.

Not true. At my last company our ops specs authorized me to fly the king air 350 single pilot as long as there were 8 or less passengers on board.

 

[SteveC]

Not true. At my last company our ops specs authorized me to fly the king air 350 single pilot as long as there were 8 or less passengers on board.

I'm thinking you read my post out of context.

 

[Avi8orn8]

I've got a question on this subject for anyone interested in replying.
I have an interview tomorrow for a contract position as a part 91 Caravan pilot (pax). The owner wants to know what my daily rate will be. I have been flying Caravans as a salaried pilot for a part 135 freight company, so I don't have much of an idea as to how much to charge per day...anyone have any advice/recommendations?

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

I've got a question on this subject for anyone interested in replying.
I have an interview tomorrow for a contract position as a part 91 Caravan pilot (pax). The owner wants to know what my daily rate will be. I have been flying Caravans as a salaried pilot for a part 135 freight company, so I don't have much of an idea as to how much to charge per day...anyone have any advice/recommendations?

A little late, but what I did was if it was a lateral move I took my yearly salary (example: 45,000) divided it by 360 to get an average 'daily' wage ($125) and then multiplied that by 1.5 since you need to make a little more if youre going to be paid daily to make the same annually on a salary.

 

[wheelsup]

A little late, but what I did was if it was a lateral move I took my yearly salary (example: 45,000) divided it by 360 to get an average 'daily' wage ($125) and then multiplied that by 1.5 since you need to make a little more if youre going to be paid daily to make the same annually on a salary.

But you don't work every day. More like 1 out of 2 days. Even "normal" people only work 240-260 days a year.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Thats why I use the multiplier of 1.5 to get a more fair daily rate.

 

[Propilot]

Not sure about daily rate but pro pilot survey says caravan captain part 91 average 47 low 37 high 61.

 

[Avi8orn8]

Thanks a lot everyone. I'll post what the pay rate will be after it's agreed upon.

 

[yoman793]

"So I hear you're a pilot; what do you fly?"

"Do you know what a C-130 is?"

"Yes"

"Well I fly the C-150"

"Oh, wooooow!"


:yeahthat:avi8orn8... i love your sig... just though id let you know it made me laugh

 

[Knucklehead]

Hey everyone im kinda new here and this is my first post. Ok so I am the GM at an FBO at KMWH, The owner who used to have a 135 Charter Cert, is going to be getting back into the Charter Business and has asked me to be the F/O on most likley a KA200. Right now we broker charter flights out for a Huge International Renewable Energy Company who is building a plant Here in Moses Lake, usually 2-3 flights a week plus and other on demand flights. So he is going to buy an KA200 and put in on 135 and has already hired a Captain who will also run the Charter Operation. Some info on me: 400TT ASEL, Multi, COMM/INST with only 15 hours Multi (Yes I know, Low Total time, really low Multi time, etc, etc) but i just can't justify not taking him up on this job. I would be sent to FlightSaftey for Sim training for SIC. I would then be able to log the 135 time as SIC and the part 91 empty legs as PIC. With the stuggle to find any kind of flying job and this being as readily avialable I think this will be a really good learn expiernce and really good to build up my turbine time. Pay has not offically been talked about, but was said to be in line with other similar positions. (Anyone know what an decent pay rate would be?) Please leave any feedback. Thanks!!

I would take the job if I were in your shoes with only 400 TT. I know a lot of higher time guys (self included) that would jump all over the opportunity for a king air job.

 

[guywhoflies]

I just got offered a f/o position on a king air (Part 91). It would pay somewhere between $100-$150 a day. Not sure how many days a month yet. I would like to get the opinions of people with more experience than myself about whether that pay rate seems reasonable. It sounds ok to me, but I may be suffering from "Holy crap, I get to fly something bigger than a 172" syndrome!

 

[roundout]

I just got offered a f/o position on a king air (Part 91). It would pay somewhere between $100-$150 a day. Not sure how many days a month yet. I would like to get the opinions of people with more experience than myself about whether that pay rate seems reasonable. It sounds ok to me, but I may be suffering from "Holy crap, I get to fly something bigger than a 172" syndrome!

That pay is terrible. Don't lower the bar.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

That pay is terrible. Don't lower the bar.

$150 a day is terrible? That's more than I make instructing, for sure.

 

[roundout]

$150 a day is terrible? That's more than I make instructing, for sure.

Yes, it might be more on a daily basis but how many days a month does the airplane fly? I will say it again: $150/day for a King Air is awful. I would not do it for less than $250, which is what I used to make flying bitch on a Cessna 414 (which doesn't require an SIC, clearly- it was for safety reasons). Hell, this summer I negotiated $450/day to fly a Diamond 40 across the country. I don't take less than $350 for Lear SIC. You're only worth what you negotiate.

If you take $150 to fly a King Air, the first time you get a raise it will only be to "normal" pay. It will take you 2 raises to get to the pay level you should start at. You are also screwing the next guy who comes in - the CP will say "well the last guy did it for $150, why should we pay you xxx?"

 

[Time2Fli]

Yes, it might be more on a daily basis but how many days a month does the airplane fly? I will say it again: $150/day for a King Air is awful. I would not do it for less than $250, which is what I used to make flying bitch on a Cessna 414 (which doesn't require an SIC, clearly- it was for safety reasons). Hell, this summer I negotiated $450/day to fly a Diamond 40 across the country. I don't take less than $350 for Lear SIC. You're only worth what you negotiate.

If you take $150 to fly a King Air, the first time you get a raise it will only be to "normal" pay. It will take you 2 raises to get to the pay level you should start at. You are also screwing the next guy who comes in - the CP will say "well the last guy did it for $150, why should we pay you xxx?"

:yeahthat: Please don't lower the bar...

 

[guywhoflies]

Yes, it might be more on a daily basis but how many days a month does the airplane fly? I will say it again: $150/day for a King Air is awful. I would not do it for less than $250, which is what I used to make flying bitch on a Cessna 414 (which doesn't require an SIC, clearly- it was for safety reasons). Hell, this summer I negotiated $450/day to fly a Diamond 40 across the country. I don't take less than $350 for Lear SIC. You're only worth what you negotiate.

If you take $150 to fly a King Air, the first time you get a raise it will only be to "normal" pay. It will take you 2 raises to get to the pay level you should start at. You are also screwing the next guy who comes in - the CP will say "well the last guy did it for $150, why should we pay you xxx?"

I appreciate the responses. This is why I asked, so I could get opinions from people who have been there.

Just to clarify, the position is right seat under Part 91. I am not a required crewmember. Therefore, it is more of a "time building" position. Does that even matter? Should the pay vary depending on if it is 135 or 91?