KA200 Job Offer

Travis1120

New Member
Hey everyone im kinda new here and this is my first post. Ok so I am the GM at an FBO at KMWH, The owner who used to have a 135 Charter Cert, is going to be getting back into the Charter Business and has asked me to be the F/O on most likley a KA200. Right now we broker charter flights out for a Huge International Renewable Energy Company who is building a plant Here in Moses Lake, usually 2-3 flights a week plus and other on demand flights. So he is going to buy an KA200 and put in on 135 and has already hired a Captain who will also run the Charter Operation. Some info on me: 400TT ASEL, Multi, COMM/INST with only 15 hours Multi (Yes I know, Low Total time, really low Multi time, etc, etc) but i just can't justify not taking him up on this job. I would be sent to FlightSaftey for Sim training for SIC. I would then be able to log the 135 time as SIC and the part 91 empty legs as PIC. With the stuggle to find any kind of flying job and this being as readily avialable I think this will be a really good learn expiernce and really good to build up my turbine time. Pay has not offically been talked about, but was said to be in line with other similar positions. (Anyone know what an decent pay rate would be?) Please leave any feedback. Thanks!!
 

BillErvin

Peddling as fast as I can
Sounds like a good opportunity to me. Go for it, its not likely you'll get this chance again. Especially in Moses Lake:nana2: Nice town, did my Sophomore year in HS there, but not too many paid flying opportunities in that area. Like everybody says, its all about who you know:rawk:
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
I would be sent to FlightSaftey for Sim training for SIC. I would then be able to log the 135 time as SIC...
This is probably going to open a big can of worms. If you search the boards, you will find many threads about logging SIC time in an aircraft certified for single-pilot operations. The only option I have seen is if the autopilot is inop.

This is the best way I have seen this scenario explained: if the a/p is working and you are not able to fly, the trip would still be legally able to go.
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
This is probably going to open a big can of worms. If you search the boards, you will find many threads about logging SIC time in an aircraft certified for single-pilot operations. The only option I have seen is if the autopilot is inop.

This is the best way I have seen this scenario explained: if the a/p is working and you are not able to fly, the trip would still be legally able to go.
Actully it is not a can of worms in this case. The second pilot is required by the regs in 135 pax carrying operations, thus he can log SIC as a required crew member.

(edit to add: )
Even if the operation is approved for single pilot operations in the Ops Specs (with an approved autopilot), it is an option for the operator to do so, not a requirement. Thus the company can still decide to use two pilots (instead of choosing to use the single pilot waiver), and both pilots can log time (PIC and SIC respectively).
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
(edit to add: )
Even if the operation is approved for single pilot operations in the Ops Specs (with an approved autopilot), it is an option for the operator to do so, not a requirement. Thus the company can still decide to use two pilots (instead of choosing to use the single pilot waiver), and both pilots can log time (PIC and SIC respectively).

If the company can "choose" to use an SIC, how is that position a "required crewmember?" The only possibilities I see are for the 10+ pax and Cat II ops. Otherwise, the BE20 is certified single pilot. FWIW, I saw a Cat II Bonanza one time -- no kidding.

Here is another question: if the PIC does not get checked on the use of the AP (to use an SIC), can the AP be used at all?
 

SteveC

Really?
Staff member
If the company can "choose" to use an SIC, how is that position a "required crewmember?" The only possibilities I see are for the 10+ pax and Cat II ops. Otherwise, the BE20 is certified single pilot. FWIW, I saw a Cat II Bonanza one time -- no kidding.
Part 135 regs require two pilots for all IFR passenger carrying operations. Size of the aircraft or type of operations matters not. This is the regulation that allows a pilot to log SIC as the second pilot.

Just because there is an option out there that allows some operators to fly single pilot ops (only after meeting certain specific conditions for both the airplane and the pilot!) does not make that second crewmember any less "required". The company is not required to fly that aircraft single pilot, they are allowed to. If they do not use the option to fly single pilot, than the second pilot is still a required crewmember by the regs.


Here is another question: if the PIC does not get checked on the use of the AP (to use an SIC), can the AP be used at all?
Sure can. The pilot has almost certainly been trained and checked on use of the autopilot as part of the 135 requirements anyway.
 

wrxpilot

New Member
If the company can "choose" to use an SIC, how is that position a "required crewmember?" The only possibilities I see are for the 10+ pax and Cat II ops. Otherwise, the BE20 is certified single pilot. FWIW, I saw a Cat II Bonanza one time -- no kidding.

Here is another question: if the PIC does not get checked on the use of the AP (to use an SIC), can the AP be used at all?
Ugh... This topic is beginning to be just as annoying as the plane on a treadmill question. If it's 135 pax, then a SIC can be used, even if the plane has an autopilot. No gray area at all. See this thread with a linked letter of interpretation from the FAA regarding this issue:

http://forums.jetcareers.com/hot-topic-archive/59421-logging-pic-in-king-air-90-a.html
 

deadstick

Well-Known Member
See...can of worms:D

I like the letter. I wish I had seen that 10 years ago. Just out of curiosity, has anybody seen an opspecs for an operator who has single-pilot aircraft on the certificate and did not have the a/p waiver?
 

BillErvin

Peddling as fast as I can
Holy smoke guys, he wanted advise on taking the job not a dissertation on logging SIC. Even if he only flies PIC under part 91 he's ahead of the game and is getting paid to fly other peoples airplanes:D
 

JDE

Well-Known Member
From the latest Pro Pilot Salary survey:

King Air 200 FO/Co-pilot - Part 135

Average - $36,000
Low - $31,000
High - $50,000

Good luck & welcome to JC! :)
 

Travis1120

New Member
Thanks for all your help. Yes, I know about all the Logging SIC stuff and I have done my research on the subject already.
 

bidderswede

New Member
Hey everyone im kinda new here and this is my first post. Ok so I am the GM at an FBO at KMWH, The owner who used to have a 135 Charter Cert, is going to be getting back into the Charter Business and has asked me to be the F/O on most likley a KA200. Right now we broker charter flights out for a Huge International Renewable Energy Company who is building a plant Here in Moses Lake, usually 2-3 flights a week plus and other on demand flights. So he is going to buy an KA200 and put in on 135 and has already hired a Captain who will also run the Charter Operation. Some info on me: 400TT ASEL, Multi, COMM/INST with only 15 hours Multi (Yes I know, Low Total time, really low Multi time, etc, etc) but i just can't justify not taking him up on this job. I would be sent to FlightSaftey for Sim training for SIC. I would then be able to log the 135 time as SIC and the part 91 empty legs as PIC. With the stuggle to find any kind of flying job and this being as readily avialable I think this will be a really good learn expiernce and really good to build up my turbine time. Pay has not offically been talked about, but was said to be in line with other similar positions. (Anyone know what an decent pay rate would be?) Please leave any feedback. Thanks!!

Go for it!
Just make sure you have the High Altitude endorsement, if you are going to log PIC.
Maybe your captain is a CFI and he can give you the endorsement after you guys do the required training.
It has to be done in a pressurized airplane with a service ceiling above 25,000' , I believe.
Good Luck!
 

bidderswede

New Member
Went and looked it up, and it seems that the sim at flightsafety will be sufficient for the High Altitude Endorsement.
My bad...:banghead:
Again...Good Luck to you
 

Nihon_Ni

Well-Known Member
The sim at FSI will work, but you also have to get the high altitude physiology training. That wasn't part of the course I took at FSI, but I got it eslewhere, showed it to the CFI there and he gave me the endorsement.
 

PaulRix

Well-Known Member
Good luck.. sounds like an exciting opportunity. I started out in a similar way - 300 TT, 10 Multi (the time it took to get my Multi Engine rating) and from there straight into the right seat of a King Air 200. Be warned though, the King Air was a lot of airplane to step up to as a low time pilot. Let us know how it goes ..
 

Baronpilot244

Killick Stoker
The sim at FSI will work, but you also have to get the high altitude physiology training. That wasn't part of the course I took at FSI, but I got it eslewhere, showed it to the CFI there and he gave me the endorsement.


I got the High Altitude endorsement at Simcom in the BE20 sim and took a physiology class. Was no biggie, done in no time.

Go for it - this sort of thing does not get dropped in your lap every day!
 

wrxpilot

New Member
What????:confused:
That makes NO sense.
It's confusing, I agree. But here's how it works. For the a pilot to be PIC of the flight, as in he/she has signed for it and calls all the shots, that pilot must have the high alt endorsement for a pressurized a/c like a BE 20. But if a right seater is flying (e.g. manipulating the controls), that person may log PIC time without the high alt endorsement. It's weird, I know.

The best way to do deal with this is just go up with the captain on a dead leg and perform the requirements (FAR 61.31g/AC61-107) for the signoff, assuming they are a CFI. They don't have to be a MEI either, just a CFI provided the right seater has their comm/multi. That way there are no questions, and it's a good thing to do anyway. Make sure the book work for the signoff is covered as well.
 
Top