Jet Blue blames WX, pilot rest rules for system meltdown

cencal83406 said:
So, you have never heard of flex time, or you disagree with the premise that earned time is meant to be used?
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Do you even have any idea how our time off works at JetBlue? Do some research, then you'll know the answer to that question.

You are making assumptions about my position that are incorrect.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
ALPA has nothing to do with safety dept hiring. Nice try.
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Then why does ALPA sit on the ERC to review ASAP's?

With that, I'm pretty sure the gate keeper for our ASAP program is an ALPA position, but I'm not positive on that one.

On our side of the house, ALPA seems to do a lot of things the company isn't interested, or isn't capable of doing. Kind of like how our scheduling committee ended up going to A-Tech and were getting our crews hotel rooms when the scheduling department couldn't.
 
Train...that's not really a fair comparison.

ALPA sits on the ERC, as a condition of ALPA's (and thus the pilot group's) collaborative participation in the ASAP program. For the CRJ side, our ALPA reps "gatekeepers" are line pilots who are members (re: volunteers) of the Association's Safety Committee.

They are not under the employ of the Company, outside of being Flight Ops - Pilots. Yes, they have something to do with safety...but they (ALPA) have ZERO to do with Company safety Department hiring...as you tried to state.

I also know this from first hand experience, considering I interviewed for a COMPANY Safety position, in which the Company interviews and hires individuals for internal safety department positions - but from internal and external talent pools.
 
Seggy said:
What happens if you guys have an incident/accident where the pilot says they are sick, but were afraid to call in because they were reaching their 'limits'?

How is that going to play out with the NTSB?

Not well. Ask me how I know.
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Or because they cannot afford it.
Seggy said:
There are HIPAA laws that prevent companies from asking that. Why don't you understand that? @HRDiva, and I wrong here?
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They should accept an answer of "I'm calling out sick ". They can require a fitness for duty note if they have a policy for, say, three or more consecutive days. They can't ask specifics about family members either due to GINA.
 
HRDiva said:
They should accept an answer of "I'm calling out sick ". They can require a fitness for duty note if they have a policy for, say, three or more consecutive days. They can't ask specifics about family members either due to GINA.
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My understanding of HIPPA is that doctors and hospitals are not allowed to release any information about you without your express premission. There is nothing in the law that precludes anyone from asking you about any sicknesses. It would be up to the individual to release their medical information or not to a company, but can't be punished if they choose not to.
 
Cptnchia said:
My understanding of HIPPA is that doctors and hospitals are not allowed to release any information about you without your express premission. There is nothing in the law that precludes anyone from asking you about any sicknesses. It would be up to the individual to release their medical information or not to a company, but can't be punished if they choose not to.
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First of all, there is no Hippo in HIPAA. Second, employers can't discriminate based on disabilities; it's hard to prove you did not have discriminatory intent if you fire someone due to the dependability policy and you knew they had a particular issue that you forced them to disclose. I responded by saying that employers should accept a statement of "I am calling out sick". I stand by that. You fly airplanes; I teach and run HR at my organization.
 
jtrain609 said:
Then why does ALPA sit on the ERC to review ASAP's?

With that, I'm pretty sure the gate keeper for our ASAP program is an ALPA position, but I'm not positive on that one.

On our side of the house, ALPA seems to do a lot of things the company isn't interested, or isn't capable of doing. Kind of like how our scheduling committee ended up going to A-Tech and were getting our crews hotel rooms when the scheduling department couldn't.
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What the next guy said...

The ALPA positions are 100% controlled by ALPA. (ERC rep, Fatigue Rep, Safety committee, etc.). The company safety employees are 100% controlled by the company. That's all I meant.

As far as gatekeeper is concerned, yes those are ALPA, but the people processing and running FOQA are not. I mean, they are pilots, and thus ALPA members, but they aren't there at the pleasure of the union. That's specific to XJT though. That varies by company.
 
HRDiva said:
First of all, there is no Hippo in HIPAA.

I stand by that. You fly airplanes; I teach and run HR at my organization.
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Umm, why the hostility? I was just stating what I was told, while trying to solicit from you whether or not that was true. I was not trying to disagree with you or paint you into a corner. I figured you of all people here, other than a lawyer, would be better versed in HIPAA. (Happy?)

Was I wrong in that? I guess I should have just called my lawyer cousin instead but the bastard would probably still bill me.
 
I was responding based on best practices, not HIPAA. I said just accept a sick call out. For a number of reasons no lawyer or HR professional would advise anyone to require a reason to be provided.

I am sorry if I came across as hostile. I am constantly questioned., because everyone thinks they know all about labor law. No one does! I had to instruct our MEC and ALPA national on how to correct an issue and thank @jtrain609 for proof reading my submission to them. Little me caused a lot of people to get money refunded.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
The only thing I took issue with is the blanket "all sick policies are unsafe" statement. I think that's false on its face, mostly because it's an absolute. Few things in life are absolute.

I'm not in favor of our sick policy, but I understand the business need for one. You can't fire someone for abuse if there isn't a line that was crossed.
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Where I have a general question about sick policies and the like; what then is a company to do if someone calls in sick for their flight, and for example someone else sees that same person on vacation in Hawaii that same day, surfing at the beach or hitting the bars/clubs? I don't believe either that someone should be questioned for using sick leave (and they can't be asked), but when sick leave is used as normal vacation leave in some of these cases (based on what I've seen in my time), then there's the aforementioned line that has been crossed if there is indeed a policy. Otherwise why have sick leave? Just bundle sick leave hours and vacation hours into the same thing.
 
That's PTO. Companies can have a policy that states sick time is available to care for illness or injury of the employee or family member. Then they can have disciplinary policies about lies.
 
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If someone is stupid enough to call in sick and then post pics of their grand vacation in Hawaii, well, then that's really dumb. I know something similar got a pilot where I work in trouble. We are our own worst enemy sometimes. Maybe we need to know where the line is. If you're not sure, social media vacation posts while you are supposed to be sick probably crosses it.
 
I've always been of the opinion that the concept of "sick time" is dumb. You are sick or you aren't and the decision is yours to make because we should be acting like adults here boys and girls. Why should sick hours be earned or accumulated?
 
MikeD said:
Where I have a general question about sick policies and the like; what then is a company to do if someone calls in sick for their flight, and for example someone else sees that same person on vacation in Hawaii that same day, surfing at the beach or hitting the bars/clubs? I don't believe either that someone should be questioned for using sick leave (and they can't be asked), but when sick leave is used as normal vacation leave in some of these cases (based on what I've seen in my time), then there's the aforementioned line that has been crossed if there is indeed a policy. Otherwise why have sick leave? Just bundle sick leave hours and vacation hours into the same thing.
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You don't need a sick policy to 'police' that very rare situation pertaining to pilots. There are honesty policies that cover that type of situation.
 
Seggy said:
You don't need a sick policy to 'police' that very rare situation pertaining to pilots. There are honesty policies that cover that type of situation.
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It's not rare. But it is rare that someone gets caught.

We have a PTO system, but people were calling in sick to get their trips dropped with PTO when there wasn't coverage to drop it legally. It was rampant. If it were rare, no one would've felt the need to police it.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
It's not rare. But it is rare that someone gets caught.

We have a PTO system, but people were calling in sick to get their trips dropped with PTO when there wasn't coverage to drop it legally. It was rampant. If it were rare, no one would've felt the need to police it.
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Do you have a rough estimate of pilots who abuse the sick policy? Percentage wise?
 
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