Jet Blue blames WX, pilot rest rules for system meltdown

amorris311 said:
Do you have a rough estimate of pilots who abuse the sick policy? Percentage wise?
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Hell I don't know. Out of all the captains that I flew with last year, probably 50 percent of them had. "Sicka-ed" a trip. "If you can't flic it sick it" was a common phrase.

It was far more prevalent than at ASA. And I think thats because there was no policy to govern that behavior. It's a fine line, given that it's PTO, but all that does is screw your buddy.
 
@PhilosopherPilot, you have never answered how a sick policy would really work in your ideal world.

I have pointed out that by having the safety department as 'head hunters' to look out for sick pilots they cross the line into the Flight Operations discipline area. This, isn't even touching the surface of HIPAA laws that very clearly state that if someone doesn't want to tell what is wrong with them, they don't need to. Are you advocating people to give up protected information under federal law in your ideal world?
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
As you like to remind us, we aren't ALPA. The airlines you're talking about have suck policies... Hmm, maybe there's a correlation?
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At Colgan the sick policy was put in place before ALPA was on property. Our first Communication as a MEC was to the company telling them what we thought of the sick policy.
 
Seggy said:
@PhilosopherPilot, you have never answered how a sick policy would really work in your ideal world.

I have pointed out that by having the safety department as 'head hunters' to look out for sick pilots they cross the line into the Flight Operations discipline area. This, isn't even touching the surface of HIPAA laws that very clearly state that if someone doesn't want to tell what is wrong with them, they don't need to. Are you advocating people to give up protected information under federal law in your ideal world?
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I didn't say I could build a truly excellent program. That's for people smarter than me. I just said I think it's ridiculous to say that it is impossible.

The safety example was purely an alternative I provided to suggest that there may be alternatives "outside the box." It may be a bad example, but the point stands. There are ways it could be done that protect the innocent, and discourage the guilty.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I didn't say I could build a truly excellent program. That's for people smarter than me. I just said I think it's ridiculous to say that it is impossible.
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We did that at Colgan after the accident.

There was no 'sick policy'. If the Chief Pilots felt that someone was taking advantage of sick leave, they had the ALPA ProStandards mentor the pilot to see what was going on. Fixed every problem.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
I didn't say I could build a truly excellent program. That's for people smarter than me. I just said I think it's ridiculous to say that it is impossible.

The safety example was purely an alternative I provided to suggest that there may be alternatives "outside the box." It may be a bad example, but the point stands. There are ways it could be done that protect the innocent, and discourage the guilty.
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It's called hiring practices and probation period. That's about the extent. If the company cannot go sufficient background checks on individuals then it is on them in my opinion. Your company likes to phase 2 things. In that time period I'm sure you can discover whether or not people abuse policies.
 
amorris311 said:
It's called hiring practices and probation period. That's about the extent. If the company cannot go sufficient background checks on individuals then it is on them in my opinion. Your company likes to phase 2 things. In that time period I'm sure you can discover whether or not people abuse policies.
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Even a great pilot can be corrupted by the group around him. I think we just had drift over time. No one was getting any repercussions for abusing the system, so the group as a whole drifted. There are whole fields of study about that kind of drift.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Even a great pilot can be corrupted by the group around him. I think we just had drift over time. No one was getting any repercussions for abusing the system, so the group as a whole drifted. There are whole fields of study about that kind of drift.
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Those fields of study also talk about how discipline isn't a good way to deal with that drift.
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
Even a great pilot can be corrupted by the group around him. I think we just had drift over time. No one was getting any repercussions for abusing the system, so the group as a whole drifted. There are whole fields of study about that kind of drift.
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Yea, it's called bad character. If you cannot see character flaws in people then it's your fault.
 
Seggy said:
Those fields of study also talk about how discipline isn't a good way to deal with that drift.
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Discipline is always the last step in any good policy. I'm not suggesting that discipline be at the forefront. Mostly, the policy sets expectations and limits. Like you said, once those limits are drawn most will stay within the lines without a hammer. The hammer is the tool of last resort. You are assuming WAY too much about my opinions, and reading far to much into the term "sick policy." I think your experiences have colored your perceptions.
 
Seggy said:
@PhilosopherPilot, you have never answered how a sick policy would really work in your ideal world.

I have pointed out that by having the safety department as 'head hunters' to look out for sick pilots they cross the line into the Flight Operations discipline area. This, isn't even touching the surface of HIPAA laws that very clearly state that if someone doesn't want to tell what is wrong with them, they don't need to. Are you advocating people to give up protected information under federal law in your ideal world?
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Where I work, we have a sick leave policy. All that policy does is outline what Sick Leave can legally be used for, or Family Sick Leave if used for that. And how it differentiates from Annual Leave, which is accrued separately.

That said, if you call in sick for a shift, you're never asked why. However if you do call in sick and it's somehow found out that you're utilizing Sick Leave for a situation where it must be Annual Leave, then you will get in trouble. People have used Sick Leave (which is always granted and never denied), instead of Annual Leave (which is not always granted and can be denied due to manning levels, etc), because they know it's a guarantee. While none of these people (that I know of) has ever been caught red-handed, the fact remains that there is a policy in place that simply defines what sick leave is and when and what circumstances it can be used.
 
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