Jeju Air 737-800 gear up landing slams into wall

Boots2Wings said:
I will say, for my own knowledge… im always curious when i see these types of overruns. Why the one last hail mary isn't just slip the damn thing a bit.
I know its generally a big no no in swept jets, but it sure as heck can be done in a last ditch effort (without going full deflection obviously) to slow to a more reasonable target. 200+ at the threshold is nuts.
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One of my very first students when I started instructing at ATP was a recently retired AA DC10 captain. He was taking the CFI course so he could teach his grandson how to fly, and had failed a checkride (the oral actually... on VFR sectionals) and I was doing some retraining for him. He told me that right after the SwissAir crash, every DC10 operator got the scenario in their next recurrent. Nobody was getting down fast enough to land and the general consensus was that it was impossible to do. He got in the box, put the plane in a slip and landed it. The instructor said he "cheated" but couldn't give a reason why.
 
BobDDuck said:
One of my very first students when I started instructing at ATP was a recently retired AA DC10 captain. He was taking the CFI course so he could teach his grandson how to fly, and had failed a checkride (the oral actually... on VFR sectionals) and I was doing some retraining for him. He told me that right after the SwissAir crash, every DC10 operator got the scenario in their next recurrent. Nobody was getting down fast enough to land and the general consensus was that it was impossible to do. He got in the box, put the plane in a slip and landed it. The instructor said he "cheated" but couldn't give a reason why.
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I know its generally verboten, but a plane is a plane… obviously there is some finesse involved, but surely, in a do or die, one shot to make the landing, it can be done? Ive gotta look up which flight it was but I swear there was some (i want to say A300) capt who had some crazy fuel leak scenario over the med and deadsticked it in but slipped the last bit cause he knew he was too high/fast

Edit: Air Transit 236 (A330) is what i was thinking off.
 
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This is basically 100% common sense, but I’m glad it’s published for a certain virtual airline.


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BobDDuck said:
One of my very first students when I started instructing at ATP was a recently retired AA DC10 captain. He was taking the CFI course so he could teach his grandson how to fly, and had failed a checkride (the oral actually... on VFR sectionals) and I was doing some retraining for him. He told me that right after the SwissAir crash, every DC10 operator got the scenario in their next recurrent. Nobody was getting down fast enough to land and the general consensus was that it was impossible to do. He got in the box, put the plane in a slip and landed it. The instructor said he "cheated" but couldn't give a reason why.
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He whipped the Kobayashi Maru!
 
BobDDuck said:
One of my very first students when I started instructing at ATP was a recently retired AA DC10 captain. He was taking the CFI course so he could teach his grandson how to fly, and had failed a checkride (the oral actually... on VFR sectionals) and I was doing some retraining for him. He told me that right after the SwissAir crash, every DC10 operator got the scenario in their next recurrent. Nobody was getting down fast enough to land and the general consensus was that it was impossible to do. He got in the box, put the plane in a slip and landed it. The instructor said he "cheated" but couldn't give a reason why.
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Well that’s not a realistic response. He’s not acting like someone who saw this for the first time. He knew what’s coming and how since others didn’t make it, had to immediately slip it in.

The TSB final report explored the possibility what if the crew didn’t waste time dumping fuel? Their investigation showed the crew still wouldn’t have had enough time to make it in for a landing.
 
I remember fondly a demonstration given by a salty old indoc instructor at American Eagle (PV, I'm sure some here remember him). Some young kid asked a dumb question, so he picked the kid's Vol 1 up and threw it. "Can that book fly??"

If both motors quit, everything else kind of goes out the window. Sometimes you just have to do some of that pilot •.
 
derg said:
He whipped the Kobayashi Maru!
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Funny how that term has entered into the general lexicon as "the no-win scenario". I get blank stares, however, when I hear a bad transmission and say "maybe their Chamber's coil is overloading their com system".

In any event, this year ST2 was entered into the United States Library of Congress for preservation in the National Film Registry, so for one brief moment in time, all is right with the world.
 
BobDDuck said:
One of my very first students when I started instructing at ATP was a recently retired AA DC10 captain. He was taking the CFI course so he could teach his grandson how to fly, and had failed a checkride (the oral actually... on VFR sectionals) and I was doing some retraining for him. He told me that right after the SwissAir crash, every DC10 operator got the scenario in their next recurrent. Nobody was getting down fast enough to land and the general consensus was that it was impossible to do. He got in the box, put the plane in a slip and landed it. The instructor said he "cheated" but couldn't give a reason why.
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For some reason, that made me think of this ad from 1994. Took a bit to find it.


View: https://youtu.be/ABx_xKrz7w0?si=5XBq6oQoOB1kE100
 
Boots2Wings said:
Depending on the situation, youd be surprised when the dfdr cuts out. For instance on le bus, going into emergency elect config can do this.
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The way that I interpreted the article I read, made it sound like they lost the component in the lab. But I know next to nothing about black boxes and neither does the news, so who knows? I do agree with what you are saying though, I've read many reports that indicated the recorder was lost during a power cycle in the airplane.
 
I agree with the decision to continue the approach and land after experiencing an engine failure on final. If you're already configured and in a position to land safely, deal with the emergency on the ground.

As a side note, I follow an A-320 "discussion" group on Facebook, and at least two times now, the question about whether to continue or go around on the final with an engine failure has been asked. Most of the responses from pilots of foreign carriers say they would go around no matter what, whereas US pilots overwhelmingly said to land.
 
vheissu said:
I agree with the decision to continue the approach and land after experiencing an engine failure on final. If you're already configured and in a position to land safely, deal with the emergency on the ground.

As a side note, I follow an A-320 "discussion" group on Facebook, and at least two times now, the question about whether to continue or go around on the final with an engine failure has been asked. Most of the responses from pilots of foreign carriers say they would go around no matter what, whereas US pilots overwhelmingly said to land.
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What’s the argument for going around?
 
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