Jeju Air 737-800 gear up landing slams into wall
- Thread starter NovemberEcho
- Start date
CFI A&P
Exploring the world one toilet at a time.
Straight ahead accelerating towards plaid speed and prepare for the overhead break back for the next approach.
“I fly formation in my RV8A with some friends on the weekends.”
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
coldly The purpose is to experience fear.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
As advanced as the A350 is, one can still screw up a go around.
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMlli0JzXBA
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TMlli0JzXBA
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
IIRC one of those guys got hired at Air France after the incident. "French" Bee around that time also stopped hiring French pilots because AF was hiring a majority of their French pilots rapidly. Now they very often have 3 pilot rotations with no French cockpit crew LOL.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Northernjets style. Next up, SOPA/SMA....er, "standard text"
Skåning
Well-Known Member
You really think they hired the best and brightest?
Just another reason I wouldnt put myself and family on Air France. Their safety record is appalling for a western airline.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
Yea, but very few things in it… Mostly OEM Airbus.
ChasenSFO
hen teaser
The French carriers (except French Bee because they were mostly Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian) were worse than the Asian carriers. Yes, the Asian carriers were annoying and would stop all the time, be scared to move, whatever. But the French carriers would just move without clearance and go off freq during taxi all the time. All but one of the times I thought there was going to be an accident on a taxiway or in the ramp was Air France or XL Airways France over like a 7 year period lol. Either they would screw up, or a bad instruction would be given, but they'd be paying no attention to ramp or ground just chugging along into a hazard. I heard one pilot say "I'll be filing a report" and the ATC reply was "Yeah, tell them about the part where you went NORDO and almost collided with Alaska".
I think the most SkyGod Audacious thing I ever saw in person was an Air France A380 starting taxi NORDO with 2 planes nose to nose with it and traffic passing perpendicular behind them in both directions. Like where tf could he even go? So Avianca steps on me trying to stop them with some long winded "Uh why is the Air France coming at us? He will hit us. There is nowhere for him to go" transmission then Air France starts flashing the landing lights as I tell Avianca and the plane behind him to make a 180 and keep going. AF captain comes on all pissed like "Why are there planes in our way? We are the biggest plane. We have right of way". I told him he needs to call for taxi next time but gave him instructions. He replied "There are planes everywhere, we go to ground control, sir" in this derogatory tone and I never heard from him again as he blew past the Cathay I asked him to hold for, and I think he thinks flashing his lights is what made everything move. Lol. I was so used to them doing this kind of crap and creating "golden tow bars" (needing a tug to un-eff a nose to nose or similar) that it wasn't even worth it. Kinda glorious, but pretty sketchy. Most French carriers have some of the best pay and work rules in the EU lol.
Oh as far as the best and the brightest; they're looking for someone with like 500 hours and EASA ratings to work like 3/4 of every month being SFO/LAX "based" but really dead heading to PPT or ORY every time they need you. And it's like $40,000ish probation pay and below 6 figures until you upgrade. LOL no wonder they can't get FOs to do it, but they don't want to PAY to base you in SFO of course. Now they'll put you up in resorts and high class hotels and the cabin crew are awesome and invite the pilots on various adventures, and you get to fly an A350 mostly just to PPT/ORY but...my buddy in the top 10 CAs was almost never off 14 solid days per month and recently rage quit after being treated like a SkyWest reserve captain for too long. US carriers really are the best job IMO.
Last edited:
My airline has hired A LOT of Air France pilots. A lot of them were dual citizens who went to France for opporutnities, but came back for cold hard cash.
On that note, I'm surprised Korean Air hasn't sued us yet. If you were born in the US to Korean-citizen parents, you enjoy citizenship in both countries. Which is amazing.
On that note, I'm surprised Korean Air hasn't sued us yet. If you were born in the US to Korean-citizen parents, you enjoy citizenship in both countries. Which is amazing.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
It's funny, when I first got to whidbey, I was introduced to their "depart and re-enter" kink. Nowhere else I've flown has this been a thing. But I guess when you want an extra 0.1 of flight time and have the gas. Anyway, it is normally at the conclusion of a practice approach, or even following the overhead and a touch and do. Go around, clean up, and stay within 4 miles/2000 ft (tower airspace), and head back to the initial for the break. You can do it all day long really. I found it amusing, since I am entirely a land once person these days. In the words of Kenny Powers, not trying to be the best at exercising......
Conversely, I was doing some pattern work on a currency hop after being mostly out for a month or two doing airline stuff. Where you raise the gear on a missed approach/go around/touch and go. In the Navy, in tactical jets, you don't reconfigure, just leave the gear down and the flaps where they are (though at the boat you do raise gear and go half flaps if it is at night/IMC, different story though). Anyway, muscle memory from airline job takes over after first touch and go, and I bring the gear up. Backseater immediately is like "dude, did you just raise the gear? WTF??" haha
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Comair 100ER
Well-Known Member
Ahh, good ole PV. That dude was legitimately crazy.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
We've got a takeover scenario on CAT-III approaches (which are Captain only, autoland on my airplane) in '24 CQ where the CA goes silent at the RA-minimums call and the FO is supposed to take over and either a. Go Around or b. Continue and land.
The RA minimums call is at 50', and the airplane isn't aware that the CA has passed out or whatever, but they wanted the FO to go around in that scenario in training.
I know I'm really new to 121 flying, but in THAT scenario, 50' above the deck for an autoland, if there's nothing wrong with the runway, screw that noise. Why would I take a perfectly good airplane single-pilot back up into CAT-III conditions when I have about a second or two to make that decision? I'm letting the damned airplane land as we told it to do and dealing with it on the ground. Instructor agreed with me, but sheepishly said it was something we had to do.
We've put some focus on those, too, and also on quick level-offs on a no-flex TO. The idea being that stuff gets really busy fast and overspeed is a threat.
If it's an -8A he's having to defend the fact that it's a nosedragger....
Re-enter is requesting clearance to fly the outside downwind pattern, which returns you to initial for the break. Requesting closed clears you for the inside downwind where you configure and at the 180, normal descent to land.
You guys also descend to 800’ after the break into the inside downwind, and still plop it onto the runway even when there’s 14,000’ of runway available.
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
Reminds me of the time going into TPE when I was an F/O. The 75/76 does an amazing autoland. It was a good visibility ILS until the flare when we hit a heavy rain shower and I couldn't see all that great. I just let it autoland while closely guarding the controls and matching them with what I could see outside. After the rollout the Capt looks at me and said "great landing" and sorta smiled. My reply was "yeah, it was an autoland" and laughed. He was a pretty laid back guy and confirmed that personality type made a good Captain. Some guys would have freaked out since F/O's can't do autolands. We'll, it wasn't really and autoland, it was an autopilot assisted F/O's landing.
With respect to your CQ scenario, I think it's much safer to let the plane land. It's gonna track the centerline until you click off the autopilot. And the Captain who is having an issue can get proper medical care. Wait...he's probably senior to you. Yeah, you should go around and hold while you talk to dispatch.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
I just went to recurrent and we train to land it in that scenario, but only if you like your captain.
JordanD
Here so I don’t get fined
Yep, I’ll fully admit to screwing up one of those go arounds a few years back.We've got a takeover scenario on CAT-III approaches (which are Captain only, autoland on my airplane) in '24 CQ where the CA goes silent at the RA-minimums call and the FO is supposed to take over and either a. Go Around or b. Continue and land.
The RA minimums call is at 50', and the airplane isn't aware that the CA has passed out or whatever, but they wanted the FO to go around in that scenario in training.
I know I'm really new to 121 flying, but in THAT scenario, 50' above the deck for an autoland, if there's nothing wrong with the runway, screw that noise. Why would I take a perfectly good airplane single-pilot back up into CAT-III conditions when I have about a second or two to make that decision? I'm letting the damned airplane land as we told it to do and dealing with it on the ground. Instructor agreed with me, but sheepishly said it was something we had to do.
We've put some focus on those, too, and also on quick level-offs on a no-flex TO. The idea being that stuff gets really busy fast and overspeed is a threat.
If it's an -8A he's having to defend the fact that it's a nosedragger....
The Cat III scenario is a little curious. I feel like you’re definitely going to touch the runway either way even if you initiate a go around at that point.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
That was my point to the instructor. He agreed.