GroundPilot
Well-Known Member
That localizer mount was huge....
Jeju Air 737-800 gear up landing slams into wall
- Thread starter NovemberEcho
- Start date
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
From an airport management/design standpoint, I'm not sure you can really plan around an aircraft doing 140 knots+ 1,000' past the runway.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
The sad part of NTSB determinations. Even the Azerbaijan crash will read with something to the effect of, "the pilot's inabilties to..."
They may very well have had a birdstrike that resulted in a rollback and loss of that engine but for reasons unknown to us now, they came back to the runway with a tailwind and a bunch of speed. Something sent the crew into a full-blown panic, the question is why. I think everyone is on pins and needles with this one...
What was cornholio’s assertion?
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Just that it was highly unusual and non-standard to have the loc antennas raised like that. Certainly felt to me like he was inferring that the berm was a factor.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
In the survivability section for sure, but obviously not causal. I feel like that at that speed, even a small ditch would have been catastrophic.
Plowing through the approach lighting system as well as the LOC antenna would’ve likely had a similar outcome, along with any kind of ditch or such. I remember at Seosan AB had similar slightly raised mounts for the LOC, as well as a low raised berm around the runway perimeter.
I hate to say it, but there are A LOT of airports in the US where if you have an overrun, you’re dead, especially with encroachment by residential and commercial structures.
Show me a nice buffer zone around an airport and I’ll show you a developer successfully glad-handing the city council for variance to build there. Here’s looking at you, Scottsdale Airpark.
We certainly have had a number of seemingly survivable accidents make fatal because of berms, fences, tree lines off the departure end, etc.
Show me a nice buffer zone around an airport and I’ll show you a developer successfully glad-handing the city council for variance to build there. Here’s looking at you, Scottsdale Airpark.
We certainly have had a number of seemingly survivable accidents make fatal because of berms, fences, tree lines off the departure end, etc.
Yup. And that contingency can’t always be planned for. In this case, the berm would be a factor, perhaps it’s designed that way for an operational reason. Like I said, several of the air bases there I was at had similar designs. Ultimately, a very high speed overrun like that after having landed downfield at high speed and gear up, can’t necessarily be planned for as a contingency, and still be able to have all the things that are off the end of a runway such as heavy antennas, light stanchions, etc.
And yes, KSDL, one of the most jam packed GA airports with regards to surrounding clutter. High dollar clutter in this case.
Fixtur
Dunning-Kruger Expert
You're on final approach at 1,700 feet and you hit some birds and one engine goes bang, what do you do?
I'm not typed on the 737 but my instinct says "gear down, declare the emergency and land on the runway you're already lined up and configured for". Besides being totally unstable or a gear extension malfunction, why initiate a go-around and then attempt a downwind landing? Just doesn't make sense.
I'm not typed on the 737 but my instinct says "gear down, declare the emergency and land on the runway you're already lined up and configured for". Besides being totally unstable or a gear extension malfunction, why initiate a go-around and then attempt a downwind landing? Just doesn't make sense.
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I don't think that's a bad idea, but any airline sim instructor would have a cow if you did that.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
With Korean infrastructure I bet that after this, all big airports have EMAS within 5 years.
If the bird strike occurred on final approach to RW 1, it would make sense to continue the approach and land.
If somehow the situation was that tower made some advisement of bird activity and the crew u initiated a go around on their own due to that, and then struck birds on the go, then that changes the situation.
Question becomes, what did the crew experience and either do on their end, not do on their end, or otherwise what so heinous occurring that made them feel they couldn’t even fly a normal VFR traffic pattern back around to a landing on RW 1?
EMAS is expensive to have for an airport that doesn’t really require it, ie- those that don’t have short runways, don’t have cliffs or severe downhills at the end, or don’t have heavy commercial/residential infrastructure right off the end of the runway. Places that aren’t Charleston, WV, or West Palm Beach, or Chicago-Midway.
was just looking at Minny and depending on which way you land you could meet some cars. Not sure of the name but how many airports in the US have that 'absorbing, collapsing' runway end installed? Is it that common ?
Here’s the thing about EMAS. It’s not the end-all, be all. It’s not designed for high speed engagements and would’ve done nothing in this case. EMAS is for fairly lower speed departures off the end of the runway, typically below about 80 knots or so. That’s it. It’s not a 61QSII/BAK-15 style departure end barrier that can be engaged at nearly 200 knots.