I'm stunned!
- Thread starter F16Flyer
- Start date
FLYMcDoofer
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
Now the SOX fall after having a lead.
Curse 2
Cubs, Sox 0
Now the SOX fall after having a lead.
Curse 2
Cubs, Sox 0
outside_looking_in
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
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Remember the Indians. They had a great team in the mid to late 90's. What happened? Contract time came up and they could not afford them anymore.
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Whoa, wait a minute there, my friend. Cleveland isn't a small market team. They've got the money to spend. Okay, so they don't have the deep pockets of the Yankees (nobody does) but they ain't the Twins or the Royals.
Yes, there should be a hard salary cap in baseball just like there is in football. Yes, there should be revenue sharing in baseball. But just because one team can outspend another one doesn't mean that they will be successful.
Take a look at the Dodgers, Mets, and Rangers. Or take a look at the NFL. Everyone gets to spend the same amount of money, but there are some teams that just flat out suck and have for a long time.
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I will admit, you are right about the Yankees deep pockets. I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. The Mets, the Dodgers, and the Rangers all dangle hundreds of millions in front of great players that might make a difference on another team. One team makes the player and another comes in and buys that player.
Trust me, the only reason the Indians had such a good team for that long is the fact that they managed to somehow sign all their good players for multiple year deals. Once those players proved themselves and contract time came up, they were gone cause Cleveland cannot pay the big bucks that other teams can. Same thing happens with the Pens. Look at Lang, Kovalev, and Jagr (although I really don't like him), they all became very good with the Pens, and once they proved their worth, the rich teams bought them up. Although I do commend Paul Kariya for taking a pay cut to play with his Friend in Colorado. I mean, how many good players came up with the Yanks, the Rangers, Mets, Dodgers, etc...? 90% of their good players came from other teams. They just bought them all up. Now the rangers have a bunch of talented players that could help their former team compete tremendously and they suck. The players are not making a difference.
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Remember the Indians. They had a great team in the mid to late 90's. What happened? Contract time came up and they could not afford them anymore.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whoa, wait a minute there, my friend. Cleveland isn't a small market team. They've got the money to spend. Okay, so they don't have the deep pockets of the Yankees (nobody does) but they ain't the Twins or the Royals.
Yes, there should be a hard salary cap in baseball just like there is in football. Yes, there should be revenue sharing in baseball. But just because one team can outspend another one doesn't mean that they will be successful.
Take a look at the Dodgers, Mets, and Rangers. Or take a look at the NFL. Everyone gets to spend the same amount of money, but there are some teams that just flat out suck and have for a long time.
[/ QUOTE ]
I will admit, you are right about the Yankees deep pockets. I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. The Mets, the Dodgers, and the Rangers all dangle hundreds of millions in front of great players that might make a difference on another team. One team makes the player and another comes in and buys that player.
Trust me, the only reason the Indians had such a good team for that long is the fact that they managed to somehow sign all their good players for multiple year deals. Once those players proved themselves and contract time came up, they were gone cause Cleveland cannot pay the big bucks that other teams can. Same thing happens with the Pens. Look at Lang, Kovalev, and Jagr (although I really don't like him), they all became very good with the Pens, and once they proved their worth, the rich teams bought them up. Although I do commend Paul Kariya for taking a pay cut to play with his Friend in Colorado. I mean, how many good players came up with the Yanks, the Rangers, Mets, Dodgers, etc...? 90% of their good players came from other teams. They just bought them all up. Now the rangers have a bunch of talented players that could help their former team compete tremendously and they suck. The players are not making a difference.
Phoenix_Son
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
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I mean, how many good players came up with the Yanks, the Rangers, Mets, Dodgers, etc...? 90% of their good players came from other teams. They just bought them all up.
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B-but... weren't the Yankees applauded in 1996 for developing homegrown talent? I thought Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettite all came up from the Yankees' farm system at about the same time. Isn't this the core group that has kept them in the World Series time after time?
People forget how long the Yankees sucked prior to 1996, when (besides Don Mattingly) they were a primarily a team of free agents.
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I mean, how many good players came up with the Yanks, the Rangers, Mets, Dodgers, etc...? 90% of their good players came from other teams. They just bought them all up.
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B-but... weren't the Yankees applauded in 1996 for developing homegrown talent? I thought Bernie, Jeter, Posada, Rivera, and Pettite all came up from the Yankees' farm system at about the same time. Isn't this the core group that has kept them in the World Series time after time?
People forget how long the Yankees sucked prior to 1996, when (besides Don Mattingly) they were a primarily a team of free agents.
outside_looking_in
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
Yeah, but what about Giambi, Wells, The Rocket, Boone (tonight's hero), all bought and paid for. I guess my figure of 90% with the yanks is a little high, but just about every team at one time or another has a good base of home grown players. Trouble is, they don't have everything it takes to complete it. Even with what the Yanks did have, they would not be as good as they are or have been without acquiring great players from other teams. Take the Tribe for instance, both times when they went to the world series, they lacked pitching. They couldn't go out and just buy some like the Yankees, so they had to do with what they had. I just think it is almost pointless for baseball to have 30 or however many teams and only a few of them be good while the most of the other teams suffer for monetary reasons. Yeah, you occasionally have teams like the A's and Twins, but give it time and Zambrano and Tory Hunter will most likely be wearing a Yankees, Mets, Orioles, Cubs, Giants, Braves, or Red Sox uniform. Along with the other good players on the teams.
Yeah, but what about Giambi, Wells, The Rocket, Boone (tonight's hero), all bought and paid for. I guess my figure of 90% with the yanks is a little high, but just about every team at one time or another has a good base of home grown players. Trouble is, they don't have everything it takes to complete it. Even with what the Yanks did have, they would not be as good as they are or have been without acquiring great players from other teams. Take the Tribe for instance, both times when they went to the world series, they lacked pitching. They couldn't go out and just buy some like the Yankees, so they had to do with what they had. I just think it is almost pointless for baseball to have 30 or however many teams and only a few of them be good while the most of the other teams suffer for monetary reasons. Yeah, you occasionally have teams like the A's and Twins, but give it time and Zambrano and Tory Hunter will most likely be wearing a Yankees, Mets, Orioles, Cubs, Giants, Braves, or Red Sox uniform. Along with the other good players on the teams.
Phoenix_Son
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
"Even with what the Yanks did have, they would not be as good as they are or have been without acquiring great players from other teams."
Yeah, you're right.
Didn't some of those players sign for below market value to be on the Yankees, though? Certainly Karl Malone and Gary Payton did that to join the Lakers...
"I just think it is almost pointless for baseball to have 30 or however many teams and only a few of them be good..."
I agree with you. It's not as entertaining. I don't understand why Selig (who owns the perenially last-place Brewers) hasn't taken more aggressive steps.
Love the avatar!
"¡Señor Beavis! ¿Donde esta tu hall pass?"
"Even with what the Yanks did have, they would not be as good as they are or have been without acquiring great players from other teams."
Yeah, you're right.
Didn't some of those players sign for below market value to be on the Yankees, though? Certainly Karl Malone and Gary Payton did that to join the Lakers...
"I just think it is almost pointless for baseball to have 30 or however many teams and only a few of them be good..."
I agree with you. It's not as entertaining. I don't understand why Selig (who owns the perenially last-place Brewers) hasn't taken more aggressive steps.
Love the avatar!
"¡Señor Beavis! ¿Donde esta tu hall pass?"
ready2fly
Well-Known Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
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including Prior who can be seen mouthing F-you in the direction of the fan multiple times.
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Nope - the other poster was correct - Prior was pointing and yelling "FAN INTERFERANCE! FAN INTERFERANCE!" ... not "F.. You!" ... although Alou had a few choice words down there.
I do agree that Prior was losing his stuff and should have been taken out sooner, but the same could be said for Pedro in last nights game.
Buck up Cubs/Bo-Sox fans! There's always next year......
.....or IS there?????
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including Prior who can be seen mouthing F-you in the direction of the fan multiple times.
[/ QUOTE ]
Nope - the other poster was correct - Prior was pointing and yelling "FAN INTERFERANCE! FAN INTERFERANCE!" ... not "F.. You!" ... although Alou had a few choice words down there.
I do agree that Prior was losing his stuff and should have been taken out sooner, but the same could be said for Pedro in last nights game.
Buck up Cubs/Bo-Sox fans! There's always next year......
.....or IS there?????
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
[ QUOTE ]
I will admit, you are right about the Yankees deep pockets. I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. The Mets, the Dodgers, and the Rangers all dangle hundreds of millions in front of great players that might make a difference on another team. One team makes the player and another comes in and buys that player.
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I see what you are saying, but it doesn't make sense to me. So the guy who the Dodgers or Mets bought isn't good enough to make them a playoff team but he's good enough to make another team a championship team? That makes no sense. If he were that good, then the rich team he's playing for would be in the playoffs instead of the poor team. After all, they'd have a bigger talent base and he'd add to that.
And you mentioned Hunter and how he'd be wearing an Orioles uniform. Why the hell would he want to torture himself by doing that? The Orioles are another perfect example of a team that spent a lot of money for nothing. They threw tons of money at any free agent they could get and what happened?
They sucked. They had a losing record and they were in the top five for payroll for many years.
Hell, two star players, Mike Mussina and Rafael Palmeiro, went elsewhere even though the Orioles offered them more money to stay.
[ QUOTE ]
I will admit, you are right about the Yankees deep pockets. I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. The Mets, the Dodgers, and the Rangers all dangle hundreds of millions in front of great players that might make a difference on another team. One team makes the player and another comes in and buys that player.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see what you are saying, but it doesn't make sense to me. So the guy who the Dodgers or Mets bought isn't good enough to make them a playoff team but he's good enough to make another team a championship team? That makes no sense. If he were that good, then the rich team he's playing for would be in the playoffs instead of the poor team. After all, they'd have a bigger talent base and he'd add to that.
And you mentioned Hunter and how he'd be wearing an Orioles uniform. Why the hell would he want to torture himself by doing that? The Orioles are another perfect example of a team that spent a lot of money for nothing. They threw tons of money at any free agent they could get and what happened?
They sucked. They had a losing record and they were in the top five for payroll for many years.
Hell, two star players, Mike Mussina and Rafael Palmeiro, went elsewhere even though the Orioles offered them more money to stay.
outside_looking_in
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will admit, you are right about the Yankees deep pockets. I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. The Mets, the Dodgers, and the Rangers all dangle hundreds of millions in front of great players that might make a difference on another team. One team makes the player and another comes in and buys that player.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see what you are saying, but it doesn't make sense to me. So the guy who the Dodgers or Mets bought isn't good enough to make them a playoff team but he's good enough to make another team a championship team? That makes no sense. If he were that good, then the rich team he's playing for would be in the playoffs instead of the poor team. After all, they'd have a bigger talent base and he'd add to that.
And you mentioned Hunter and how he'd be wearing an Orioles uniform. Why the hell would he want to torture himself by doing that? The Orioles are another perfect example of a team that spent a lot of money for nothing. They threw tons of money at any free agent they could get and what happened?
They sucked. They had a losing record and they were in the top five for payroll for many years.
Hell, two star players, Mike Mussina and Rafael Palmeiro, went elsewhere even though the Orioles offered them more money to stay.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I am saying is it takes a crew of good players to make a good team. The players that the Orioles, the Mets, and the Dodgers Buy aren't doing anything to help. Obviously they need a change somewhere else. Those players that they do buy, though, could be the missing piece on one team or another that could help carry them to the playoffs. But with the Mets, Orioles, Dodgers, etc they are nothing but a money sponge. Look at A-Rod. They pay him umpteen hundred million dollars to stay with a team that sucks. I think I would be leaving by now or at least taking a pay cut to help keep others there if my real goal was to win a championship. Yes, there are some players that love the game, but some of them are overpaid and shouldn't even be there. The big difference is that if a small market team wants to acquire talent, they have to give up something comparable, if a large market team wants to acquire talent, all they have to do is reach deeper into their endless pockets. It really is not a life or death issue, it is just sports, but I think it needs to change.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I will admit, you are right about the Yankees deep pockets. I think you are missing the point I was trying to make. The Mets, the Dodgers, and the Rangers all dangle hundreds of millions in front of great players that might make a difference on another team. One team makes the player and another comes in and buys that player.
[/ QUOTE ]
I see what you are saying, but it doesn't make sense to me. So the guy who the Dodgers or Mets bought isn't good enough to make them a playoff team but he's good enough to make another team a championship team? That makes no sense. If he were that good, then the rich team he's playing for would be in the playoffs instead of the poor team. After all, they'd have a bigger talent base and he'd add to that.
And you mentioned Hunter and how he'd be wearing an Orioles uniform. Why the hell would he want to torture himself by doing that? The Orioles are another perfect example of a team that spent a lot of money for nothing. They threw tons of money at any free agent they could get and what happened?
They sucked. They had a losing record and they were in the top five for payroll for many years.
Hell, two star players, Mike Mussina and Rafael Palmeiro, went elsewhere even though the Orioles offered them more money to stay.
[/ QUOTE ]
What I am saying is it takes a crew of good players to make a good team. The players that the Orioles, the Mets, and the Dodgers Buy aren't doing anything to help. Obviously they need a change somewhere else. Those players that they do buy, though, could be the missing piece on one team or another that could help carry them to the playoffs. But with the Mets, Orioles, Dodgers, etc they are nothing but a money sponge. Look at A-Rod. They pay him umpteen hundred million dollars to stay with a team that sucks. I think I would be leaving by now or at least taking a pay cut to help keep others there if my real goal was to win a championship. Yes, there are some players that love the game, but some of them are overpaid and shouldn't even be there. The big difference is that if a small market team wants to acquire talent, they have to give up something comparable, if a large market team wants to acquire talent, all they have to do is reach deeper into their endless pockets. It really is not a life or death issue, it is just sports, but I think it needs to change.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
Well, you can make that argument for Mussina, who took about five million less to go to the Yanks, but you can't make it for Palmeiro, who took less to go the Rangers. And they're a crappy team.
The thing is that the Orioles pissed everyone off because Pinhead Geek Angeloser would never pull the trigger on deals. He was such an idiot. He could have kept both Mussina and Palmeiro around for less money than he ended up offering them after the season if he had just pulled the trigger during the season. Both of them did everything but take out ads on the scoreboard saying sign me but he didn't, and he pissed them off so they left.
I used to be like, nah, DC doesn't need a baseball team but Pinhead Geek Angeloser has irritated me so much that I'll never go to Camden Yards again as long as he owns the team. Let's put it like this -- since 2001, I've spent more time at the Q out in San Diego than I have at Camden Yards.
Well, you can make that argument for Mussina, who took about five million less to go to the Yanks, but you can't make it for Palmeiro, who took less to go the Rangers. And they're a crappy team.
The thing is that the Orioles pissed everyone off because Pinhead Geek Angeloser would never pull the trigger on deals. He was such an idiot. He could have kept both Mussina and Palmeiro around for less money than he ended up offering them after the season if he had just pulled the trigger during the season. Both of them did everything but take out ads on the scoreboard saying sign me but he didn't, and he pissed them off so they left.
I used to be like, nah, DC doesn't need a baseball team but Pinhead Geek Angeloser has irritated me so much that I'll never go to Camden Yards again as long as he owns the team. Let's put it like this -- since 2001, I've spent more time at the Q out in San Diego than I have at Camden Yards.
Phoenix_Son
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
mmmm... San Diego...
mmmm... San Diego...
outside_looking_in
New Member
Re: I\'m stunned!
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mmmm... San Diego...
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Boy the coastal climate changes in California are quite interesting. By the Pacific, it is like 65 degrees in July, go a mile inland and the temp spikes up over 90 degrees. That is wierd. Especially after driving there from Fresno where it is about 105 - 110 degrees.
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mmmm... San Diego...
[/ QUOTE ]
Boy the coastal climate changes in California are quite interesting. By the Pacific, it is like 65 degrees in July, go a mile inland and the temp spikes up over 90 degrees. That is wierd. Especially after driving there from Fresno where it is about 105 - 110 degrees.
