I'm stunned!

[ready2fly]

Re: I\'m stunned!

[ QUOTE ]
But not one post (correct me if wrong) has mentioned that only a few minutes later the Cubs shortstop dropped a routine ball that cost the opportunity to turn a double play and end the inning.

[/ QUOTE ]
You're wrong.

In my first response in this thread, I wrote:
[ QUOTE ]
Want a scapegoat? - blame Alex Gonzalez for muffing what could have been a double-play ball to END THE INNING.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta read the whole thread, sport.

So, the "curse" is real in Cubbie land, huh?

Man, the Marlins just out-hit, out-run, out-played the Cubs in those last two games.

Hey Cubs fans..... MAYBE NEXT YEAR!.

Here's hoping the Yankees lose tonight.

 

[tonyw]

Re: I\'m stunned!

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I just heard the WORST statement and this is from the governor of Illinois:

"If somone ever convicts this guy of a crime, he won't get a pardon from this governor."

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, for God's sake. What Steve Bartman (I figure I can put his name here now, it's on the front page of the Wall Street Journal) did wasn't a crime. He didn't even do anything WRONG, and that's coming from a Cubs spokeperson who the Journal interviewed.

This is like the Bill Buckner thing all over again. Sox fans blame Buckner for the debacle in the 1986 World Series. Well, folks, there are a few problems with that. Clemens left that game with a lead that the Sox bullpen couldn't hold. Then the Sox took the lead, and had not just two outs, but an 0-2 count on Ray Knight, who isn't even the best athlete in his family (his wife is in the LPGA Hall of Fame). Calvin Schiraldi couldn't get one more strike. After that Bob Stanley threw a wild pitch, which tied the game.

Buckner's error, which everyone remembers, was only the very LAST event in a series of screw ups that cost the Red Sox the game -- not the World Series. They did have a game seven to redeem themselves.

Same thing here. Would the out have helped the Cubs? Sure. You'll take any out. But Gonzalez booted a double play ball, and the Cubs pitchers did give up eight runs in that inning. Bartman had nothing to do with that. And the Cubs did have game seven to redeem themselves.

I was pulling for the Cubs just as hard as anyone but to scapegoat someone for doing nothing wrong is just idiotic. At least the scapegoating of Buckner has some validity because he did make a mistake. This one does not.

 

[EDUC8-or]

Re: I\'m stunned!

It was hard for me to watch the game last night, for my years of being a Cubs fan have taught me not to believe. I was feeling good when we were up 3-1, then a little nervous when it was 3-2, and downright pessimistic when the series was tied up.

It's hard for me to see a team with no tradition go to the series. Miami is simply not a sports town. Sure, there's lots of Floridians gettin' on the bandwagon, but other than the 'fins, there's not much of a passion for sports in Miami. I'm not really even sure if Miami is in Florida. Maybe it's one of those Bermuda Triangle things and you think you're really in FL but you've been transported to some strange place where the women are beautiful and you have to wait in line for 45 minutes to pay a 20 dollar cover to purchase a Miller Lite for 7 bucks.

What about Willie Woo and Old Style at the game? What about Banks, Santo, and Sandberg? I miss hopping on the red line at North Ave and stopping by my buddies on Sheffield on the way to the the game. How cool is Wrigleyville? Of course there's the Cubby Bear after the game. It never matters if the Cubs are in last place, there's always a good crowd. It's great to go to a place like Wrigley and see such tradition. I'm not even going to get started about Pro Player Stadium off the Turnpike with plenty of asphalt surroundings.

I was hoping the Cubs won just so that poor guy on the left field line would have his life brought back to normal. You still gotta hand it to the Marlins. They're a scrappy team and they deserve to be in the World Series. Go Bosox!

 

[ready2fly]

Re: I\'m stunned!

[ QUOTE ]
Sure, there's lots of Floridians gettin' on the bandwagon,

[/ QUOTE ]
Not so much. Just about everyone I've spoken to will be rooting for the Bo-Sox.. IF they go to the World Series.

Why? Because you'r absolutely right - the Marlins have zero tradition. Their legacy will forever be winning the World Series in 97 (or was it 98?) and then being dismantled by Huezenga (sp?).

The Yankees train here, and with the exception of a handful of Yankee fans, most folks I know are tired of seeing them. As I said earlier - the act is old. Time for a new one.

Now... if the Yankees do win to go to the WS.... then, by all means..... GO MARLINS!!

 

[outside_looking_in]

Re: I\'m stunned!

Actually, yeah, let the Sox go, so then old Pedro has a chance of pitching in Florida and getting plunked. How funny would that be? I would have to laugh my butt off. I do know how you Cubs fans feel though. But, how do you think I feel. I am a Pirates fan. Continuously players are traded in a fire sale type deal. I mean don't get me wrong I would liked to have seen the Chicago Pirates (Ramirez, Lofton, and Simon) win, but I also have lost my taste for baseball in large part. Whoever has the most money gets the best players from struggling teams. Believe me, Minnesota and Oakland might be good now, but wait until contract time comes up for some of their best players and it is time to up the $$$. Those players will be like "The Oakland who? All yeah those guys, now I'm a Yankee, Now I'm a Red Sox player, now I'm a Cubs player, now I'm a Braves player". Well, you get the point. Not cutting down on the Cubs or anything, but I just can't see baseball lasting the way it is.

Remember the Indians. They had a great team in the mid to late 90's. What happened? Contract time came up and they could not afford them anymore. I just think it is kinda sad that a team can develop great players, get maybe one or two shots at winning something, and then end up having to trade them all away just cause of monetary reasons. Small market teams get a shot every now and then, but when the true talent of their players is discovered, suddenly they can only be afforded by four or five top market "rich" teams

.

 

[tonyw]

Re: I\'m stunned!

[ QUOTE ]
Remember the Indians. They had a great team in the mid to late 90's. What happened? Contract time came up and they could not afford them anymore.

[/ QUOTE ]

Whoa, wait a minute there, my friend. Cleveland isn't a small market team. They've got the money to spend. Okay, so they don't have the deep pockets of the Yankees (nobody does) but they ain't the Twins or the Royals.

Yes, there should be a hard salary cap in baseball just like there is in football. Yes, there should be revenue sharing in baseball. But just because one team can outspend another one doesn't mean that they will be successful.

Take a look at the Dodgers, Mets, and Rangers. Or take a look at the NFL. Everyone gets to spend the same amount of money, but there are some teams that just flat out suck and have for a long time.

 

[TheShortOne]

Re: I\'m stunned!

common guys, you can't compare to the horrors that have plagued D-town ala the Tigers and Lions. They didn't beat the record for being the worst team ever! yay go Tigers!

 

[ready2fly]

Re: I\'m stunned!

Detroit still has a team???

 

[jtrain609]

Re: I\'m stunned!

Heck, we've got a new ball park AND a new football stadium.

All this for teams that can't even loose well.

At least we've got the Wings...

 

[NJA_Capt]

Re: I\'m stunned!

I'm surprised this hasn't been mentioned, so allow me.

The Cubs curse this year is not because of the fan, it is because of Mayor Daley.

Daley bulldozed Meigs at 1:30am on Mar 31. Hours after the official start of the 2003 ML Baseball season (Mar 30). The Cubs will never win a penant unless Meigs is restored and or Daley resigns.

 

[ready2fly]

Re: I\'m stunned!

HERE HERE!!!

 

[cmsuav8r]

Re: I\'m stunned!

"The Cubs will never win a penant unless Meigs is restored and or Daley resigns."

HOLD THE PHONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Cubbies don't need another curse. They are having a hard enough time shaking the billy goat curse.

By the way, I am PISSED that the cubs blew it with 3 chances to finish off the the f%@&#ng marlins

 

[kellwolf]

Re: I\'m stunned!

Sometimes I think I'm the only Marlins fan around, and I LIVE in Florida. I liked the team since they were formed in 93, and I was still living in Mississippi at the time. 97 (yes, R2F you were right) was a great year. 98 sucked b/c after the World Series, the moronic owner sold off or traded everyone and their cousin. It's had to build a fan base when your players change every two years. Rodriguez's contract is up after this season, and I just hope we can afford to keep him. Conine is in until 2005, and we NEED to keep all those young pitchers.

'Course the fact that I was a batboy for the Memphis Chicks in 1990 when Conine played first doesn't hurt my fan status.

 

[VampyreGTX]

Re: I\'m stunned!

Okay, it wasn't directly the Cubs fans fault but his actions were the turning point in the Cubs chances. Here's why:

Just before that incident, Prior's velocity was already declining. He wasn't throwing as accurate nor as hard as he could anymore. One reason I felt he should have been pulled earlier. Anyway, the incident with the fan caused most of the Cubs team to get fired up, including Prior who can be seen mouthing F-you in the direction of the fan multiple times. He never recovered his composure after that, it seemed the anger remained. If Alou had caught the ball, that would be out #2 with a man on first. The next incident was the grounder to Gonzalez, one of the best hands on the Cubs if not the league. You could see during the replays that he was in a hurry to try for a double-play to end the inning. He was focusing on throwing to second before he even had the ball. That led to the error and the advancement of the runners. If the foul ball had been caught, he could have taken his time, concentrated on the ball and gotten an easy out at first. However, he let his concentration slip. Now, there is where any fault attributable to the fan ends. The rest is just flat out dumb moves by the cubs. Dusty calls in Farnsworth, a strong, accurate releiver. After warming up, instead of a few hot pitches, he makes Farnsworth intentionally walk the first batter he faces, pretty much wasting the whole warmup. First pitch to the next batter, smack, into the outfield. Repeat with another walk and another outfield hit.

Did the Cub fan cost the Cubs the world series? In my opinion yes. NOT directly, but because he caused the Cubs to get pressured, angry and well, nervous and they never recovered their composure and made too many moves that they would not otherwise have made from past game experiences. And what pisses me off the most.... he never even got the ball he went for........

 

[MikeD]

Re: I\'m stunned!

[ QUOTE ]
Did the Cub fan cost the Cubs the world series? In my opinion yes. NOT directly, but because he caused the Cubs to get pressured, angry and well, nervous and they never recovered their composure


[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. It's just like in basketball where people whine that "we lost the game due to bad officiating". If the team was really that good, they would've been so far ahead in points, the officiating would'nt have mattered. In the Cubs sense, if the were truly worthy of winning or even being considered winners, they would've been 8-10 runs ahead where one fan's action would'nt have mattered., not whining about one singular guy screwing up their season or World Series chances.

 

[aloft]

Re: I\'m stunned!

[ QUOTE ]
Just wanted to post that, see how many of you watched the game, any comments?


[/ QUOTE ]Got two words for you too: Squawk Box.

 

[F16Flyer]

Re: I\'m stunned!

MikeD -

Game two, the Cubs beat the living caviar out of those fish. Score was 12-3.

They wanted to win that night.

Anyway, I see it as like alot have said, he didn't literally cost them the series, but just started most of the bad attitudes, right after that, Prior walks Castello, then BOOM the horrific 8th happens. He was just that sour apple that got it all started.

 

[tonyw]

Re: I\'m stunned!

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, it wasn't directly the Cubs fans fault but his actions were the turning point in the Cubs chances.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, man. That's a big stretch. You are a professional athlete. Your job is to shake off adversity and play well. And on top of that, there was a game seven as well. If you can't get up and be on top of your game for a game seven that wins your team a trip to the World Series for the first time in almost 60 years, you shouldn't be playing baseball for a living.

Look, even the Cubs said that the guy didn't do anything wrong. And if you want to blame someone, blame the ump. If the fan did interfere with the ball in the field of play, then the batter is out.

But all that's BS. The bottom line is the Cubs had plenty of chances to do something to get themselves in the World Series and they didn't.

 

[F16Flyer]

Re: I\'m stunned!

Yep, I said it a million times. We didn't exicute when we needed to.

Did you know almost all the runs the Marlines scored where from singles, and doubles. Thet also scored more runs with 2 outs, then any other.

They played little ball, they didn't swing for the fences every at bat, which help. The Cubs on the other did not, they tried to hit home runs golore. Thats one thing that upsets me about the Cubs.

BUT... even though there was a game 7, I think I would have felt a little aweful knowing what happened just a day ago, it was a big blow to the Cubs, and a huge lift to the Marlins, though the Cubs played a great 7th game.

Always next year...

 

[cmsuav8r]

Re: I\'m stunned!

"including Prior who can be seen mouthing F-you in the direction of the fan multiple times"

He wasn't mouthing F-you, he was shouting for the ump to call FAN-INTERFERENCE, that is what he was saying