I'm getting a little bit discouraged

[Polar742]

I will make around $45,000 this year, including $5,000 from a 3 month stint at a 2nd job.

Then you made $40,000, minus any per diem you hide in that number, flying planes.

Respectfully disagree. If I'm paying my bills with per diem, its income. I don't spend $40 a day to live on the road. I budget my month on my take home guarantee. The more 3 or 4 day trips I get a month the more money I have left over every month.

Per diem:
per di⋅em

 <script language="javascript">AC_FL_RunContent = 0;</script><script src="http://cache.lexico.com/js/AC_RunActiveContent.js" language="javascript"></script><script type="text/javascript">var interfaceflash = new LEXICOFlashObject ( "http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf", "speaker", "17", "15", "<img src=\"http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif\" border=\"0\" />", "6");interfaceflash.addParam("loop", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("quality", "high");interfaceflash.addParam("menu", "false");interfaceflash.addParam("salign", "t");interfaceflash.addParam("FlashVars", "soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FP02%2FP0263200.mp3"); interfaceflash.addParam('wmode','transparent');interfaceflash.write();</script><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://cache.lexico.com/d/g/speaker.swf" id="speaker" quality="high" loop="false" menu="false" salign="t" flashvars="soundUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fcache.lexico.com%2Fdictionary%2Faudio%2Fluna%2FP02%2FP0263200.mp3" wmode="transparent" width="17" align="texttop" height="15"><noscript></noscript> /pər ˈdi

əm, ˈdaɪ

əm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [per dee-uh

m, dahy-uh

m] Show IPA –noun <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="35">1.</td> <td>by the day; for each day.</td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"> <tbody><tr> <td class="dnindex" width="35">2.</td> <td>a daily allowance, usually for living expenses while traveling in connection with one's work or being employed at a distance from one's home: a per diem for lawmakers while the legislature is in session. </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table class="luna-Ent"><tbody><tr><td class="dnindex" width="35">3.</td> <td>paid by the day.</td></tr></tbody></table>

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/per diem

 

[ZapBrannigan]

No Trip7. It's not income. It's per diem. You may not realize that today, but you will someday. Thank you Polar.

 

[Trip7]

For tax purposes its not income. Realistically, its income. Anyways, agree to disagree.

 

[Baronman]

It's per diem...don't confuse it with your salary. If you spend less than that while on the road, great. Between tolls for my drive in, and food while on the road it comes out close.

Like Polar said...You made 40k at your flying job, take out per-diem and you make 37-38k flying a 70 seat jet around.

 

[Cptnchia]

For tax purposes its not income. Realistically, its income. Anyways, agree to disagree.

Hmm, just bought a new house and they specifically excluded per diem payments from the income as they viewed it as a payback for money spent. In other words, since I used income to buy food, the perdiem replaced that income. To add it in would have been to falsely boost the income calculation.

 

[crjsomeday]

A pension? No thanks, odds are very good that it would not exist when you retire anyway. (DAL,USAIR,UNITED, need i continue?) Save and investing on your own is a better plan.

 

[mwflyer]

If it was as bad as everyone makes it sound they would be hiring right now.

Exactly! The way these guys talk on here, the regionals should be hiring year-round, regardless of the cost of oil, the economy or any other factors, due to everyone turning in their resignations. You vote with your feet, not on an internet message board. Everybody should be walking off the job if its that bad. I guess it's not.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Everybody should be walking off the job if its that bad. I guess it's not.

Since airline pilots are married to their employers thanks to the seniority system, that isn't likely. A better measure of satisfaction would be the ratio of pilots who returned to an airline from furlough to those who went on to greener pastures or left aviation altogether.

Consider the 2001/2002 furloughees. When US Airways started to recall they had to offer recall to 10-20 pilots per class in order to get 1 "yes".

 

[Tld]

Love doesn't pay the bills. I've never seen in my life someone cash a check for love.

my point exactly....you should do it because you like to do it....if you expect anything else out of it, you'll very likely be left dissapointed.

 

[Trip7]

Since airline pilots are married to their employers thanks to the seniority system, that isn't likely. A better measure of satisfaction would be the ratio of pilots who returned to an airline from furlough to those who went on to greener pastures or left aviation altogether.

Consider the 2001/2002 furloughees. When US Airways started to recall they had to offer recall to 10-20 pilots per class in order to get 1 "yes".

That's because most of them were at another airline or aviation related job and had moved so far up it would be a paycut to return to Airways. Makes sense. Why would a 4th year UPS guy return to AMR?

 

[Cptnchia]

That's because most of them were at another airline or aviation related job and had moved so far up it would be a paycut to return to Airways. Makes sense. Why would a 4th year UPS guy return to AMR?

I know two of them that just said the heck with aviation and never went back. They are much happier today.

 

[Gonzo]

That's because most of them were at another airline or aviation related job and had moved so far up it would be a paycut to return to Airways. Makes sense. Why would a 4th year UPS guy return to AMR?

They do. I just was talking to a NAA CA who is about 200 from recall and plans to come back to AA. I know a few JB's guys that are going to come back to AA also.

P.S.-Per Diem is not pay.

 

[C150J]

I completely agree that Per Diem is not compensation and did not intend to make such an assertion. However, the original poster wanted to know how bad things actually are and I feel it necessary to share that, yes, you should expect more money for food, etc. I would be deceptive if I didn't mention that.

I'm with everyone else - we need to negotiate what we're worth. But no, I'm not in line for food stamps (anymore!).

J.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

That's because most of them were at another airline or aviation related job and had moved so far up it would be a paycut to return to Airways. Makes sense. Why would a 4th year UPS guy return to AMR?

Since you weren't there, and were not a US Airways furloughee, I doubt you have any clue as to what our motivations were.

 

[Polar742]

FWIW, I started flying at 16 years old in 1992. The aviation landscape was desolate.

My first CFI was a guy that was a Captain at the original Midway airlines, but couldn't find a job anywhere else. He was CFIing during the day to snot nosed 16 year olds like myself, working the ramp at FedEx at night. To the best of my knowledge he got on at FedEx after busting his butt loading the planes all night.

I, on the other hand, got in at a crappy time (but I didn't know that, there were no 'jetcareers' or anything I knew of...), and by the time I got my ratings, it was 1998, and I rode the wave.

You just never know...

 

[JoelT]

FWIW, I started flying at 16 years old in 1992. The aviation landscape was desolate.

Ha! Same here. Class of '94?

 

[falconvalley]

Phil,

Have you considered driving a limo rather than a tour bus? It's a lot of fun too!

 

[tonyw]

my point exactly....you should do it because you like to do it....if you expect anything else out of it, you'll very likely be left dissapointed.

If you agree with my statement that love doesn't pay the bills, then it would seem that you completely disagree with the do it because you like it comment you just made.

Do it for the money. It's a job. You do it for the money, not because you love it.

 

[seagull]

There are still a few great companies to work for as a pilot. I have been very fortunate in companies. The truth is that there were NEVER that many "good" pilot jobs. Remember that back in the "golden age" where it was TWA and PAA that were the best, and a decent second tier consisted of carriers like NWA, DAL, AAL and CAL, the total number of pilots for ALL of those carriers was about the same that work for FDX and UPS today. The rest of the industry consisted of a few commuters flying twin otters and the like. The cargo carriers were not considered good career moves, although Flying Tigers not that far below the good pax carriers, the rest were off the scale low.

Now? There are a bunch of fairly large regionals, and the pay on the pax side has come down quite a bit (still 6 figures for the most part). There are a heck of a lot more pilot jobs now, and a larger percentage of them pay less, but the amount of good pilot jobs is really about the same.

Don't know if that helps or not, though. More pilots at the "lesser" jobs trying to get hired at the good ones, but, at the same time, significantly fewer military pilots to compete with.

 

[seagull]

If you agree with my statement that love doesn't pay the bills, then it would seem that you completely disagree with the do it because you like it comment you just made.

Do it for the money. It's a job. You do it for the money, not because you love it.

Strongly disagree, and it very much shows when someone is not in it for "love". Wanting money is just not enough. The stakes are too high. Someone who just cares about money will not immerse themselves in the field in the way that is required to make them a truly good pilot.