I lost/am losing my job HELP Do's and Dont's

[moxiepilot]

A lot of you know me from taking time to review resumes and being on this site for *15* years. Like most of you, I've vouched for folks on this site to get jobs at companies I've worked for, walked in resumes, gotten beers at hooters & shown my face in Vegas every now and then. While the past few years I've distanced myself a little more due to various excuses, I'm still here and participate where I can in between episodes of Tiger King.

However, a recent interaction led me to feel the need to post a list of things you might want to consider if you are looking for information on different aspects of the industry.

Don't:

• Contact a member stating it looks like the member's company is terrible
• Then ask how bad is it
• Then ask do you think (the person looking for advice) should stay at their current company

At that point my advice is "Yes. Yes, stay at your current company."

Do:

• Ask open ended questions without making assumptions, like:
  • How is it working for your company?
  • Where are you at in your career to compare my station in life with yours, so that I can reasonably estimate a comparable quality of life?
  • Where can I go to gather further information on your company for more unbiased facts; do you have people I could contact?
• Briefly state what research you may have done to help the person responding understand where to begin
• State what your previous experience has been and where you are looking to go in aviation, so the responder might understand your goals and if this is a reaction to the current environment or if timing is just coincidental

I'm sure there are a lot more Do and Don't lists - these were just a few off of the top of my head.

Cheers.

 

[Cory Trevor]

The lack of common sense people have is pretty surprising sometimes

 

[Screaming_Emu]

A favorite of mine is hearing from somebody you haven’t talked to in AGES simply because they want help.

Them: “Hey man! How you been? How’s the family?”
My inner monologue: “oh boy, here it comes.”
Them after a tiny bit of small talk: “so how’s things at *company*?”

I might be a bit of an idealist, but the way this whole thing is supposed to work is that you get to know people who you think would be a good fit at your current place. They don’t have to be the bestest of friends, but there should at least be a relationship there, an occasional check in even if you don’t heed something.

I won’t write a recommendation where I wouldn’t feel comfortable answering a call or email from HR about the person. In my opinion, doing that waters down the intent of a recommendation and is unfair to those who really deserve it.

 

[jrh]

The lack of common sense people have is pretty surprising sometimes

Unless you've dealt with people for a while, in which case it's not surprising at all.

 

[Skåning]

A favorite of mine is hearing from somebody you haven’t talked to in AGES simply because they want help.

Them: “Hey man! How you been? How’s the family?”
My inner monologue: “oh boy, here it comes.”
Them after a tiny bit of small talk: “so how’s things at *company*?”

I might be a bit of an idealist, but the way this whole thing is supposed to work is that you get to know people who you think would be a good fit at your current place. They don’t have to be the bestest of friends, but there should at least be a relationship there, an occasional check in even if you don’t heed something.

I won’t write a recommendation where I wouldn’t feel comfortable answering a call or email from HR about the person. In my opinion, doing that waters down the intent of a recommendation and is unfair to those who really deserve it.

Ideally yeah I agree with you, but as a child of ‘08 when I got my first airline gig, I’ve always been happy to help folks get hired wherever I was at the time.

I wrote a letter of rec for someone I met in line at NGPA a couple years back and got them hired at VX/AS. Sure we weren’t buddies but it was nice to help someone out, and we became friends since.

These are really crappy times and if we can do anything to help (especially for those on the street) we should look out for one another.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Ideally yeah I agree with you, but as a child of ‘08 when I got my first airline gig, I’ve always been happy to help folks get hired wherever I was at the time.

I wrote a letter of rec for someone I met in line at NGPA a couple years back and got them hired at VX/AS. Sure we weren’t buddies but it was nice to help someone out, and we became friends since.

These are really crappy times and if we can do anything to help (especially for those on the street) we should look out for one another.

Ill gladly help someone do research, tell them what it’s really like, get them in contact with other people, etc.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

In this economy, beggars can’t be choosers. Take the first flying job that hires you.

 

[Stone Cold]

In this economy, beggars can’t be choosers. Take the first flying job that hires you.

It's amazing what a difference a few weeks can make, isn't it?

 

[alaskadrifter]

It's amazing what a difference a few weeks can make, isn't it?

Last year I was literally the only pilot who applied for my jerb. Now within just a few days I’d be nowhere near competitive for it if I was applying with everyone else who has been laid off up here.

 

[jtrain609]

It's amazing what a difference a few weeks can make, isn't it?

"BUT WITH RETIREMENTS EVERYTHING WILL BE AWESOME FOREVER I'M HOLDING OUT FOR DELTA TO CALL OMG MY AIRLINE DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE!?"

 

[jynxyjoe]

"BUT WITH RETIREMENTS EVERYTHING WILL BE AWESOME FOREVER I'M HOLDING OUT FOR DELTA TO CALL OMG MY AIRLINE DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE!?"

I mean... those guys holding out are a lot further up the seniority list. Plus, they're literally telling every FO they fly with, "Oh yeah, now I really wish Delta/SWA/whoever had said YES 8 months ago."

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

"BUT WITH RETIREMENTS EVERYTHING WILL BE AWESOME FOREVER I'M HOLDING OUT FOR DELTA TO CALL OMG MY AIRLINE DOESN'T EXIST ANYMORE!?"

It’s not just pilots. Even AA’s CEO Parker said in 2017 that his airline will never lose money. There will be good years and bad years but nothing like in the past.

Well........

 

[Hiboglossi]

I mean... those guys holding out are a lot further up the seniority list. Plus, they're literally telling every FO they fly with, "Oh yeah, now I really wish Delta/SWA/whoever had said YES 8 months ago."

I'm in the top quarter of the seniority list at my regional, and will remain there for now since our furloughs have been rescinded for the time being. I still fully expect to be unemployed by the end of the year, especially considering the fates of TSA, PenAir and Compass.

 

[jynxyjoe]

I'm in the top quarter of the seniority list at my regional, and will remain there for now since our furloughs have been rescinded for the time being. I still fully expect to be unemployed by the end of the year, especially considering the fates of TSA, PenAir and Compass.

OK, I mean, I get you don't like regionals. Obviously some people do. No one has a crystal ball but the guy at edv at 25% is probably gonna have a job when I/if get let go all things being equal and that's what guys would talk about.

I get it there's just one crayon in the box for you, one tool in the chest. Everything is a nail. There's just a slightly bigger conversation happening here.

 

[jtrain609]

I mean... those guys holding out are a lot further up the seniority list. Plus, they're literally telling every FO they fly with, "Oh yeah, now I really wish Delta/SWA/whoever had said YES 8 months ago."

The seniority list at Compass won't exist in about a week. I'd be in the single digits if I were still there, but who cares when the airline doesn't exist anymore.

 

[Hiboglossi]

No one has a crystal ball but the guy at edv at 25% is probably gonna have a job when I/if get let go all things being equal and that's what guys would talk about.

EDV is probably safer than small regionals such as the one I work at. Then again I can't help but notice they have the same parent company Comair, ASA and Compass had either when they were shut down or before they started their deterioration toward "Comairage". I'm certainly grateful to have my job and my seniority right now but with how unstable the regionals are I doubt I'm nearly as safe as someone at, say, a LCC or ACMI carrier.

 

[jynxyjoe]

The seniority list at Compass won't exist in about a week. I'd be in the single digits if I were still there, but who cares when the airline doesn't exist anymore.

Sure, I was talking EDV specifically, but yes, your ship was sinking and you stepped out at the right time assuming another year you wouldn't have been at yo'nited or delta or something. Not fighting you on that. Majority of guys on the top 25% of their list are gonna do ok off this, and I don't think that's a controversial statement. I don't think you do either. But lets line up a couple Jetblue new hires that were one and two year FO's for EDV and see if they can kinda nod and say out loud "I see what you're saying". Just thinking, what I'm saying isn't crazy.

EDV is probably safer than small regionals such as the one I work at. Then again I can't help but notice they have the same parent company Comair, ASA and Compass had either when they were shut down or before they started their deterioration toward "Comairage". I'm certainly grateful to have my job and my seniority right now but with how unstable the regionals are I doubt I'm nearly as safe as someone at, say, a LCC or ACMI carrier.

I mean, I'm not gonna root for you to fail but, are you saying ACMI's like Miami Air? I had a good run from 2006-09, 11-13, 15-19. My perspective is colored, You caught me! I did an ACMI too, doesn't exist now, what's left does tour busses, didn't see any regionals close up shop when Vision and old Kingfisher or whatever closed down.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Also, if anyone's reading this is new and saying "isn't this the comedy guy?", please don't assume I'm even pretending I'm unhappy with where I'm at. Just a very close look at what's happened, and if I'll have a job in 8 months. Also, I tried to goto many places, I did go to a few, I left a regional for another regional (but the FO's made more than the captains so that was a good choice and I was a captain anyhow when I moved over), and I left a failing regional for a non union 121 supplemental that was ACMI and it was worse run and fell apart faster than a card house. It was embarrassing to watch and even more embarrassing that I was going back to EDV to start as a FO and make more than our 737 captains, and I had health benefits again. Like I can tell you my plan was shot to hell pretty early on, I'm fortune I ended up where I'm at. I even bid overnights to see my folks and sister and friends, and once every couple months go down to DR to restock on hand rolled cigars. My life is fine.

You can't have an intellectually honest conversation on here when it comes to regionals, period. You can't elect to stay longer at a regional, even if it worked for you and others around you. So I do this as a poke in the eye every once in a while to say, "yeah yeah no, you're right, the guys I left behind are all idiots and we on here got it all figured out". You can't even have a narrow conversation about it, because apparently, there's a lot of PTSD from the regionals and I just haven't learned nothing.

I freely admit, while in the union offices I was the guy stealing all the Compass Pepsi from their office. Mostly Mountain Dews. Because you don't get to keep your flow and Pepsi you worthless bastards.

 

[Max Power]

OK, I mean, I get you don't like regionals. Obviously some people do. No one has a crystal ball but the guy at edv at 25% is probably gonna have a job when I/if get let go all things being equal and that's what guys would talk about.

I get it there's just one crayon in the box for you, one tool in the chest. Everything is a nail. There's just a slightly bigger conversation happening here.

Yakob and I work for the same regional, I’m senior to him (top 10%) and I’m not sure we’ll be around. An awful lot hinges on the CARES distribution toward the FFD carriers versus the majors and legacies. The company has stated as much. It’s not hating on regionals as it is being realistic toward all of our survival. How many 50 seat operators does UAL need when this shakes out? What if this downturn lasts longer or doubles back in fall? Is it feasible to stay in business even short term if all the grants don’t work out as they need them to?

Hoping for the best, planning for the worst and hoping I’m really wrong about the worst. I don’t want to be a lifer, but I’m in a good spot for now.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Yakob and I work for the same regional, I’m senior to him (top 10%) and I’m not sure we’ll be around. An awful lot hinges on the CARES distribution toward the FFD carriers versus the majors and legacies. The company has stated as much. It’s not hating on regionals as it is being realistic toward all of our survival. How many 50 seat operators does UAL need when this shakes out? What if this downturn lasts longer or doubles back in fall? Is it feasible to stay in business even short term if all the grants don’t work out as they need them to?

Hoping for the best, planning for the worst and hoping I’m really wrong about the worst. I don’t want to be a lifer, but I’m in a good spot for now.

I mean, sure. The conversation isn't about being a lifer is smart. Simply the lifers are gonna sit back again and tell FO's "you know those United FO's told me the same thing you're telling me, and I don't know, while they were on the street working TSA I was doing this" and they're doing it again today.

I think we're all in the same boat, looking at a furlough. I'm happy I'm furloughed and going back to SJI if they ever hire again, so I can go do TSA or learn to weld professionally like I really want, until I get called back.