House votes today on 1500hr rule WITH college loophole

I can't remember the details and don't know the systems on a Q400. And I'm not trying to start a fire....

Fatigue needs to be looked at and pushed through before the 1500 hr requirement in my mind. Both pilots were fatigued (and one was sick). If not fatigued, they could have kept "their scan" and noticed the reduction in airspeed. Maybe the captain thought the stick pusher (if it has one?) was the autopilot going haywire (again I don't know the systems, so I don't know if there is an audible warning as well). If not fatigued, he might have realized a stall was occurring.

I think the fatigue issue (and work rules) need to be the number one priority right now

Besides, with how many pilots are on the street right now, whenever airlines start hiring again, most applicants will have over 1500 hrs, and it'll be a while before emptying that pool happens.
 
The day the bill was passed ERAU raised tuition by 2G. hahaha

Serious note:
The FAA needs more oversight in these college programs before giving them so called loopholes. I attended two flight schools (61 and 141 in complete different parts of the country) and found that outside of the ground studies (prep for private written, etc.) and the actual flight class, the rest of the education sucks, badly. That is what the FAA needs to oversight more of outside of general college education requirements. Develop something that can teach college students on icing, or procedures, or advanced weather, or something that will be useful in the future career. Now some may say oh these classes are offered at ERAU, well then, they need to be an industry standard and included for 61, 141, and 142 flight schools so be it. I took a systems class that was built around 737-200 systems, but not much else, pure text and some diagrams, but did it really teach encounters that might come up? (well, it was kinda shady and suspect at best).

But on the other hand, I look at a place like DCA, and see their instructor contracts only go to 800 hours dual and some get kicked out (only heard about that a few times) and I think if we are in a situation such as the past 6-7 months we are going to continue with a lot of people looking for CFI gigs and not enough positions open while building the 1500 TT requirement. To me, I see it as the end of flight schools in an advanced stage of the game. In the future, I see these programs cost going way up as less and less people go through these programs and their cirruculum changing to produce pilots with more hours. So what I am seeing, is that instead of say ATP producing pilots at 250 hours for said cost, its going to be closer to 400 hours for higher, maybe 2x higher said cost because of the fewer students going through their programs.

Now, as for education, that also needs to be changed. Our way of thinking as Professional Pilots needs to change. I continuously hear fellow aviators say this is not the profession to get into. Well, it may or may not, but we need to encourage and promote aviation in a better light and see if we can improve the system ourselves and not some Representative from the same district to keep local businesses happy. Right now more than ever the control, I believe the future of how we shape the pilots of the future is in our hands, and we cant mess up right now.

Now as for the general public, it needs to know more so that pilots are not paid as well anymore, and it starts in the public schooling level, where many places are under the consideration that this is way to make lots of money and it aint anymore.
 
Unfortunately, I predicted this turn for the worse. Seggy is absolutely right that the two bills have to go to conference (the Senate bill still hasn't been passed, though) before going to the President, so there's still a chance that this will be fixed, but the RAA, ATA, and colleges will be lobbying their asses off to get this loophole in the final bill. Call and email your Senators and Congressmen and contribute to ALPA-PAC.
 
Could this be a death knell to flight schools like ALLATP? Not their entire training program but the big sales pitch of zero to right seat in a regional jet in 9 months?

Personally I think this is good it makes aviaton a tiny bit less accessable to everyone. Maybe not like it used to be 40 years ago when the ex WWII guys saturated the ranks of old school airline pilots, but bit of a push in that direction.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Could this be a death knell to flight schools like ALLATP? Not their entire training program but the big sales pitch of zero to right seat in a regional jet in 9 months?
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I think all Academy type schools could suffer as a result of legislation. Schools like All ATP perhaps a bit more. This school's primary marketing tool is getting people to the cockpit of a regional as soon as possible, this would significantly change their appeal.
 
Airdale said:
Yeah...I'm working on my plan B. I just can't see myself still doing this in 10 years. I want to be flying, thats for sure. But you can only slam your head into a wall so much before you realize enough is enough.

When I was a student and even a CFI, I was so wide eyed and excited about flying for the airlines. Wow, just to walk through the terminal in a uniform was a thrill. 3 years later, I can't believe how naive I was. Looking back, doing my 20 in the Coast Guard would have been the best choice.
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Hang in there buddy. Right now aviation is going thru one of its darkest if not the darkest periods in history. Once age 65's impact fizzles away things will get much much better. If the 1500 rule becomes law, I truly believe some regionals will go out of business due to lack of pilots. Regionals will sign LOA after LOA to raise pay and benefits substantially in order to attract enough pilots to stay in business.
 
Trip7 said:
Hang in there buddy. Right now aviation is going thru one of its darkest if not the darkest periods in history. Once age 65's impact fizzles away things will get much much better. If the 1500 rule becomes law, I truly believe some regionals will go out of business due to lack of pilots. Regionals will sign LOA after LOA to raise pay and benefits substantially in order to attract enough pilots to stay in business.
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And then we'll all fly though lots of pretty rainbows and there will be unicorns standing next to the taxiway and the planes will be made of gumdrops and candy and the birds will all be chirping and it will be just like a Disney movie ending and, and, and....
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Could this be a death knell to flight schools like ALLATP? Not their entire training program but the big sales pitch of zero to right seat in a regional jet in 9 months?

Personally I think this is good it makes aviaton a tiny bit less accessable to everyone. Maybe not like it used to be 40 years ago when the ex WWII guys saturated the ranks of old school airline pilots, but bit of a push in that direction.
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I think it could go either way personally.

If thing passes people really will want to get to the CFI as quick as possible, because it will def. be an average of 2 years before hitting ATP times after that. So youll want to get your licenses as quick as possible, what better way than an accelerated program?
 
BobDDuck said:
And then we'll all fly though lots of pretty rainbows and there will be unicorns standing next to the taxiway and the planes will be made of gumdrops and candy and the birds will all be chirping and it will be just like a Disney movie ending and, and, and....
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LMAO!! :rotfl:
 
BobDDuck said:
And then we'll all fly though lots of pretty rainbows and there will be unicorns standing next to the taxiway and the planes will be made of gumdrops and candy and the birds will all be chirping and it will be just like a Disney movie ending and, and, and....
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Oh-My-Gawd. . .

:rotfl:
 
BobDDuck said:
And then we'll all fly though lots of pretty rainbows and there will be unicorns standing next to the taxiway and the planes will be made of gumdrops and candy and the birds will all be chirping and it will be just like a Disney movie ending and, and, and....
Click to expand...


:rotfl:LMAO thanks for making me look bad 'cause I just started cracking up at work
 
I have a question. I apologize if I missed the answer somewhere else. What happens if you have a 5000 hour pilot(or 10,000, or whatever), without a degree, who decides he wants to move from the corporate world or something like that to the airlines(I know this might sound a little crazy)? Would the airline ever overlook the lack of degree if the pilot has a certain amount of flight time, or is the degree a pretty set in stone requirement?
 
Most, if not all, legacies require a degree. I think one would still be able to work for a regional without a degree. This bill I believe credits "hours" to people with degrees/courses in aviation.
 
s60 said:
I have a question. I apologize if I missed the answer somewhere else. What happens if you have a 5000 hour pilot(or 10,000, or whatever), without a degree, who decides he wants to move from the corporate world or something like that to the airlines(I know this might sound a little crazy)? Would the airline ever overlook the lack of degree if the pilot has a certain amount of flight time, or is the degree a pretty set in stone requirement?
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The bill does not establish a requirement for a degree to fly for a 121 operator - although - and I'm sure will be much debate - I wouldn't be against such a requirement, although I'm sure those people who lack a degree would certainly scream.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Unfortunately, I predicted this turn for the worse. Seggy is absolutely right that the two bills have to go to conference (the Senate bill still hasn't been passed, though) before going to the President, so there's still a chance that this will be fixed, but the RAA, ATA, and colleges will be lobbying their asses off to get this loophole in the final bill. Call and email your Senators and Congressmen and contribute to ALPA-PAC.
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I agree the lobbyist will be in full force from the RAA, ATA and some colleges. I also think some bottom feeder regionals will be behind this too, it will become to selective for bottom feeders to compete for those qualified applicant's. No one is going to be willing to raise the starting pay for the experience that will be required.

Personally, I am for the 1500TT and the fatigue rules, I am against a single database forever for all pilots regarding discipline. That leaves the door open for abuse by less than respectable companies.
 
surreal1221 said:
The bill does not establish a requirement for a degree to fly for a 121 operator - although - and I'm sure will be much debate - I wouldn't be against such a requirement, although I'm sure those people who lack a degree would certainly scream.
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I currently do not have a 4 year degree right now, but I will before I'm 23 for the whole ATP thing.

Really though, does a degree help you at all inside the cockpit?
 
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