House votes today on 1500hr rule WITH college loophole

Hey for the 1756th time on JC. An UNDERGRADUATE degree in aviation is just as worthless as any other UNDERGRADUATE degree. It checks a box.

But please let this continue for 7 more pages with everyone justifying their route as the way.
Magically everyone ends up in the same place. Riddle was a good networking tool it got me out of my shell and I met alot of good people. Yes I didn't get the clap while I was there but I had no problem getting laid if/when I wanted to.

Yes there are dbags that goto Riddle/UND. Hell I'm probably a dbag. But there are also dbags that FA then CFI then goto Mountain State University. For some reason alot of dbags are pilots or is it pilots are dbags.

Mica is looking out for his voters, 99.98% of those in Washington do. Did you really think Congress would fix problems without loopholes and waste?
 
I went to a top ten college (liberal arts education, flew on the side) and will be the first to say that this is both good and bad. Great that a degree is required, bad that people can still subvert the experience "hat." I could easily be angry at this, seeing that my education wouldn't count towards this requirement, but think that anyone under 1500TT shouldn't be applying to transport-category aircraft anyways (I excluded 135 because those guys have already figured this out).


This is not intended to alienate/denigrate pilots with less than 1500TT.
 
I was reading this flight global article: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/10/14/333458/pilot-safety-bill-passes-us-house.html

It mentions: "The bill also requires the agency to raise the minimum requirements for the ATP licenses. Pilots must receive training to function in factors such as a multi-pilot crew, high altitude operations and adverse weather conditions including icing."

Can someone tell me if this means the 1500 hours minimum will have to go up or just other requirements such as 500 XC or 75 instrument or new reqs? Also, does the multi-crew, high altitude ops and icing training have to be completed before going to the airlines or is something the airlines have to train in the new hire classes? Does the article have it wrong? If icing conditions training are required for ATP, how will this effect flight schools in Florida, Arizona and Texas where icing is more difficult to come by? Can training in icing conditions be done in a simulator? How these requirements get interpreted by the FAA will be interesting since it could change how flight schools structure their training. FBOs that cannot afford a simulator or aircraft certified for icing could be hurt if icing conditions and high altitude ops training is required before the ATP is given since pilots will go to where they can get it. If I can I would like to go the FBO route but if I cannot get the required training at one close to me it makes it more difficult to go the FBO route unfortunately.

I think the loophole for Universities sucks the way it is written because all it will do is add another course or two to the required courses and cost students more money for what may amount to 100-200 flight hours. If you are going to have a loophole, make it logical and clear even if it is unpopular or dont have one at all. This is govt at its finest!
 
I also see that they've completely ignored the 141 self-examining stage checks versus pink slip loophole. Not trying to harp on those that helped with this - it's better than nothing (especially the fatigue section). Just a little frustrating that it's going to be harder for good people without that UND/ERAU degree to get into the industry. I think the playing field needs to be leveled in this respect, which means EVERYONE needs an ATP.
 
I think technical professions require a balance of formal education, on-going self-study, and hands on experience to promote development. I learned a lot of technical skill sets in school and networked with some great people. Without those skills I would not have been ready to get my feet wet in reality. After school and many grease-stained and torn jeans later I have also learned a lot about real-world engineering challenges, judgment, and how everything fits together. I've made mistakes, been humbled, and learned from people who are better than I'll ever be. I've also encountered technical things I realize don't understand as well as I like to - which leads to the ongoing self-study component. It all plays off of each other in a process of growth.

As far as aviation goes, <1500 hours does not strike me as the correct balance. I also don't quite understand the desire to bypass it. It is TBD where I go, if at all, in the professional flying world, but if I take that plunge I know I want to soak in as many different experiences as I can.
 
zmiller4 said:
I don't see that as a silver lining at all. No offense to the Ivy League of the Skies folks, but I've seen no correlation between professionalism and aviation programs at any of the flight schools or airlines I've worked at. Sense of entitlement, yes. Professionalism, no.
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Well said!!!

The most imature people I fly with are the 22-23 year old flight school grads(on average). I hope the loop hole isnt less than 1200 TT.
 
RWH1986 said:
I like the college loophole because it gives me reassurance for people like me who are paying our own way through college with student loans. Try paying a 1000 a month for the 5 years living on a CFI or other low time pilot job pay.
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HAHA good luck with that. "CFI or other low time pilot job." So regional FO is a high paying pilot job?? Your whole statement has so much wrong with it. You're overpaying for a degree that has very little value and expecting to be put ahead of others because of your bad decision. Low time pilot pay is part of the career equation dude; hate to break it to you. Maybe "CFI or other low time pilot job" experience is what you need to actually be qualified to fly 121. You're basically saying that because you have more debt you are more qualified to operate an aircraft with someone's family in the back?
 
Acording to the reports, ERAU did not get a free pass.

The FAA is allowed to credit college courses for SOME of the flight time required for an ATP. Even if they give the riddle rats 500 hours credit, that still means they need to fly another 1000.
 
USMCmech said:
Acording to the reports, ERAU did not get a free pass.

The FAA is allowed to credit college courses for SOME of the flight time required for an ATP. Even if they give the riddle rats 500 hours credit, that still means they need to fly another 1000.
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Good. Shouldn't be allowed to have such a loophole, since a college course doesn't equate to flight time or time behind the controls. And I'm even a Riddle grad and agree there shouldn't be special consideration for them or others.
 
mrivc211 said:
One VERY VERY big way to make up for your lack of skill, whether your flying a B737 or a Cessna 152 is your willingness to learn and a good attitude. I guarantee that 99 times out of 100, if you have that good attitude, the other guy your flying with will see that rare asset, and be willing to go above and beyond to teach you.
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These are words of wisdom. The "willing to be taught" attitude should be carried with you throughout your career. I routinely walk away from the airplane knowing that tomorrow I will be a better captain from what I learned today, sometimes from the unlikeliest of sources.
 
So I just have to ask. . .

What university did the two pilots of 3407 attend?

Since you know, that seems to be a large factor in the debate over the exception being made for a certain large aviation centric university.
 
surreal1221 said:
So I just have to ask. . .

What university did the two pilots of 3407 attend?

Since you know, that seems to be a large factor in the debate over the exception being made for a certain large aviation centric university.
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One was a Gulfstream 'Academy' grad.. the other was a traditional 4 year college/ CFI route type.

The 'college academies' loophole is better than nothing. The ATP 'zero to hero' in 90 day programs will grind to a near-halt. It'll take 4 years and a serious regimen of study to buy your way into a job this way, at least.
 
I was just about to ask will ATP and DCA be included in this loophole or no? ATP will still have a good slogan it will just be lets us get you there in 90 days so you can start building those 1500 hours now! I should soo be a marketing major! To me that actually seems attractive!
 
If I remember my high school civics class correctly, the differences between the Senate and House bills will need to be worked out in conference, and such minor differences are frequently dropped. So...how can we lobby to make sure this particular "minor difference" is dropped from the bill?
 
Jbroz04 said:
I was just about to ask will ATP and DCA be included in this loophole or no? ATP will still have a good slogan it will just be lets us get you there in 90 days so you can start building those 1500 hours now! I should soo be a marketing major! To me that actually seems attractive!
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I couldn't find the details when I briefly reviewed the bill. The testimony was in support of accredited 4 year flight programs, of which there are not all that many. ATP and DCI are not on there by a long shot. Only 2 of the accredited programs are an associate degree even.

http://www.aabi.aero/programs.html
http://www.aabi.aero/programs2.html
 
aloft said:
If I remember my high school civics class correctly, the differences between the Senate and House bills will need to be worked out in conference, and such minor differences are frequently dropped. So...how can we lobby to make sure this particular "minor difference" is dropped from the bill?
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Write your Congressmen/women and Senators. I do.
 
CubCaptain said:
HAHA good luck with that. "CFI or other low time pilot job." So regional FO is a high paying pilot job?? Your whole statement has so much wrong with it. You're overpaying for a degree that has very little value and expecting to be put ahead of others because of your bad decision. Low time pilot pay is part of the career equation dude; hate to break it to you. Maybe "CFI or other low time pilot job" experience is what you need to actually be qualified to fly 121. You're basically saying that because you have more debt you are more qualified to operate an aircraft with someone's family in the back?
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I'm not saying that just because I have more debt than others that I am more qualified. I am just looking out for the fact I need to pay off my debt. Even if the ATP rule passes the airlines are not going to pay more which increases the years everybody would have to spend making less than 20k a year. I do have to say that I have learned more and am doing better in my college classes than compared to when I was learning at local flight schools/fbo. It's all opinion and I dont think I made a "bad decision" to get a degree.
 
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