House, Senate pass 1500 rule, Rest rules, and more

[mshunter]

You know, the Mormons make the same argument regarding young men who go off to be missionaries for their church, how much more mature they all are when they come back. Nevermind that most people go through the same maturation in those same first few years of adulthood, missionary or not. It happens whether you're in college, or the Army, or in the workforce, or on a church mission. It still happens, regardless of which path you take. Same goes for flying.

But just like a white person will never know what it's like to be black, you'll never know whether it was CFIing that made the difference or not; you only know the path you took. Because you're a CFI, you don't understand how much I learned in those 1000+ hours of non-CFIing--yet, arrogantly, you think you do.

In psychology, that's called egocentrism.

And your post, with the bashing of CFI's is different/does not display arrogance how?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I did notice this, in fact. But I just saw it from the ICAO standpoint where they probably wouldn't like us to start varying wildly from what our ATP is to what an ICAO ATP should be considering we're, like, in ICAO. Good point. Thanks.

They can figure out a method to put a limitation on it to limit the holder from operating as PIC with the non-ICAO compliant ATP. At the point the holder gets the required hours for the ATP, take it to the FSDO and have the limitation removed. Sort of like the frozen ATP business in Europe. Pass the checkride, but don't have the hours yet.

And how about an age change on ATP now. Why is it still 23? Why change everything else to be ICAO compliant, but not the ATP age?

 

[Polar742]

They can figure out a method to put a limitation on it to limit the holder from operating as PIC with the non-ICAO compliant ATP. At the point the holder gets the required hours for the ATP, take it to the FSDO and have the limitation removed. Sort of like the frozen ATP business in Europe. Pass the checkride, but don't have the hours yet.

And how about an age change on ATP now. Why is it still 23? Why change everything else to be ICAO compliant, but not the ATP age?

I had an ICAO restriction on my ATP when I first received it. Way back in a time before the Colgan accident and before SIC types. It was due to an SIC ratio issue.

Then again, I have some "pinks" from my primary training, and very little CFI time. Somehow, 12 years since I flew a little plane last, and I was able to stall and recover just fine last time I did it. I'm an OK, at best pilot. Some things never cease to amaze me.

 

[ppragman]

They can figure out a method to put a limitation on it to limit the holder from operating as PIC with the non-ICAO compliant ATP. At the point the holder gets the required hours for the ATP, take it to the FSDO and have the limitation removed. Sort of like the frozen ATP business in Europe. Pass the checkride, but don't have the hours yet.

And how about an age change on ATP now. Why is it still 23? Why change everything else to be ICAO compliant, but not the ATP age?

If they change the ATP age after I turn 23 I might have a stroke. Seriously.

 

[Callador]

For those that are angry about the increase in hours, I honestly wouldn't worry about it too much. Assuming you don't have inside connections (like me), I can't get call backs from some of the regionals with 2200TT lots of multi and 400 turbine. Even the bare "minimums" for a lot of the regionals are 1000-1500 hours right now. So I would plan on CFI'ing or doing some other work before you get to the 121 world. It really isn't that bad!

Look at it this way, even in the early 80's you had to have 2500TT to be an FO on a metro. 1500 isn't all that bad when you see what others have had to go through in the past. This law also will hopefully help out with scheduling and fatigue as well.

Now I need to get to Riddle so I can get the new ATR rating. Yep, they are going back to old school acronyms... it just now means Airline Transport Riddle. Once I have an ATP/ATR combo, nothing will stand in my way! :bandit:

 

[saria19]

A few bullets from my resume:
I've got about 3000 hours. Mostly in turbine equipment. I've worked for two airlines and been through two airline 121 training programs therein- there were notable differences in the two. I've flown a turboprop and a jet. One of those airlines was Colgan Air- where it was often muttered that the way they did business was just asking for an accident. Gee.

I've also flown several makes of light airplanes. In addition to that, I served as a non-pilot crewmember for about 900 hours in UH-60 Blackhawks doing everything from assisting with navigation and radio communication to CPR to armed security.

So yes, I'm a pilot, and your self-interest and naivete is showing in the last line of your quoted post above. Frankly, if you can't accumulate 1500 hours in three years, you're not trying very hard.

Dude, you are a bit biased on this topic. This really hurts newbies who hate instructing, and I'm one of those people who is just bordering on 1000 hours now after one year of instructing. And I really DON'T want to spend another year teaching.:banghead:

Seeing how you are singing praises to this though, how about you do us a favor and go burn your logbooks, so you can't claim better than 1500. I'd love to see you work back up to this, especially since the low-time jobs now won't empty as quickly as they used to.

 

[tjvpa28]

And I really DON'T want to spend another year teaching.:banghead:

Then please don't.

 

[SurferLucas]

Dude, you are a bit biased on this topic. This really hurts newbies who hate instructing, and I'm one of those people who is just bordering on 1000 hours now after one year of instructing. And I really DON'T want to spend another year teaching.:banghead:

Seeing how you are singing praises to this though, how about you do us a favor and go burn your logbooks, so you can't claim better than 1500. I'd love to see you work back up to this, especially since the low-time jobs now won't empty as quickly as they used to.

Time for a quick lesson for you, this site is GREAT for networking and meeting people who WILL help you out in the future.

Your little tirade above will not help you out in either of those areas.

If you don't like instructing, get up to 1200 hours and apply to fly cargo. Don't want to fly cargo? Then you'd better figure out a way to get to ATP mins, because guess what, you're going to have to have them.

Are you really in that big of a rush to make 20-30K a year, only to have your airline decide to downsize so you can get furloughed and then you're right back to being a CFI or burger flipper.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side...better learn that right that now.

 

[esa17]

Dude, you are a bit biased on this topic. This really hurts newbies who hate instructing, and I'm one of those people who is just bordering on 1000 hours now after one year of instructing. And I really DON'T want to spend another year teaching.:banghead:

Seeing how you are singing praises to this though, how about you do us a favor and go burn your logbooks, so you can't claim better than 1500. I'd love to see you work back up to this, especially since the low-time jobs now won't empty as quickly as they used to.

But what you're not seeing is this isn't hurting you. You might not WANT to spend another year instructing but it's not a bad thing. It will help you grow as a not just a pilot but as a crew member maybe even as a person. I've spent years instructing and having not given a single lesson since April makes me a bit sad. If you're bored teaching, reinvent yourself and adapt your teaching style. Once you get that dream 121 job how much excitement do you think you'll have flying CVG to EWR 23 times a month? The truth is excitement in airplanes is usually very very not good.

We've all got a long road ahead of us, all this rule does is add another few miles to your journey. In addition as has been pointed out there are other avenues than flying 121. The thing to do is keep an open mind and keep plugging along. If you're not willing to put in the work to get the time then it might be time for a psychology degree.

 

[Kalikiano]

I busted a few check rides while quickly climbing the aviation ranks. Will this really hurt future flying gigs that bad if my record is searchable? I don't plan on working for the airlines right now I'm an instructor/corporate pilot but would consider other gigs. This seems like it could hurt an insurance policy as well which could be a strike against me.

 

[BobDDuck]

Now guys who have been at the majors for at least the last 5 years can see what they have been missing in the RJ cockpits. Tons of kids going "me... me... me! I want it now! Dammit, it's not FAIR!!!. Wahhhhh!"

 

[citationCJ1]

So what happens to the pilots that are currently in new hire classes that have less than 1500 hours?

Do they have 3 years to get their ATP?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

This really hurts newbies who hate instructing

 

[jhugz]

If they change the ATP age after I turn 23 I might have a stroke. Seriously.

x2

Dude, you are a bit biased on this topic. This really hurts newbies who hate instructing, and I'm one of those people who is just bordering on 1000 hours now after one year of instructing. And I really DON'T want to spend another year teaching.:banghead:.

I'll say it again, I hate instructing. It bores the hell out of me. However when I'm at work I try to give it my all and be the best I can be for my students. I also learn a ton from time instructing. I'm so tired of being tied into this generations attitude of I want it now without having to work for it. A couple years instruction and a year in cargo before flying a jet is nothing in the grand scheme of things. I've been instructing for the past year and a half and I know how tough it is. I know how little we are paid and how you live off of credit cards like I did. I feel for you however, your monetary problems aren't a consideration when we are talking about safety of travel.

I love it.

 

[BobDDuck]

Hugzy... I'm proud of you. You've certainly done a whole lot of growing up on this site since you first started posting here. At one point in time (right in the middle of your GoJet phase I think) you'd made it on to my list of people who I'd never help out with moving up in this industry, even if I was in a position to. That list is now one person shorter (actually, it's only got 2 people on it now). Congrats.

 

[GlenA]

So what happens to the pilots that are currently in new hire classes that have less than 1500 hours?

Do they have 3 years to get their ATP?

That's what I am trying to figure out as well...being in the new hire class leaves us in kind of an ambiguous state. Already training, but not on the line. If anyone has an answer to this one please post it!

 

[Firebird2XC]

Dude, you are a bit biased on this topic. This really hurts newbies who hate instructing, and I'm one of those people who is just bordering on 1000 hours now after one year of instructing. And I really DON'T want to spend another year teaching.:banghead:

Seeing how you are singing praises to this though, how about you do us a favor and go burn your logbooks, so you can't claim better than 1500. I'd love to see you work back up to this, especially since the low-time jobs now won't empty as quickly as they used to.

Waaaaa. PM sent. For the rest of the reading public, here are the two key paragraphs:

'Biased' doesn't even begin to cover it. This concept, and the general ideas that became what the Colgan 3407 families fought for- they were MY baby. Me and a few other folks sat down and compiled the list of ideas that we thought might make a focused effort to change the industry for the safer and improve quality of life in the process. It's a complex, convoluted issue and we did the best we could with it. This is the end result. Somewhat politically tainted by Congress in the end, yes, but this is it.

So yes, just a little bit biased. I got torqued over how pilots were being lead down the primrose path about the nature of career progression in the aviation world. I got steamed over how we're used, abused, overworked, underpaid, and put in legally, morally, and physically compromising situations and then tossed aside as 'liability' when something goes wrong. So I DID SOMETHING about it. I put my back- and my brain- into it.. and together with others we started something that got peoples' attention. When the Colgan 3407 families demanded answers.. and action.. they realized that we'd bumped a set of good ideas. So they set it, and Congress spiked it. Bump, set, spike.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Hugzy... I'm proud of you. You've certainly done a whole lot of growing up on this site since you first started posting here. At one point in time (right in the middle of your GoJet phase I think) you'd made it on to my list of people who I'd never help out with moving up in this industry, even if I was in a position to. That list is now one person shorter (actually, it's only got 2 people on it now). Congrats.

I'll second that.

 

[jhugz]

Hugzy... I'm proud of you. You've certainly done a whole lot of growing up on this site since you first started posting here. At one point in time (right in the middle of your GoJet phase I think) you'd made it on to my list of people who I'd never help out with moving up in this industry, even if I was in a position to. That list is now one person shorter (actually, it's only got 2 people on it now). Congrats.

I'll second that.

Thanks gentleman, means a lot.

 

[esa17]

So I DID SOMETHING about it.

Bravo sir!