House, Senate pass 1500 rule, Rest rules, and more

A pilot who has 1500 hours working as an instructor has more experience than a pilot who has 1500 hours and got it by towing banners or flying pipeline or dropping skydivers.

In some regards, yes, but in others they do not. As a CFI you're not actually flying the plane if you're doing your job anyway. Being a CFI prepares you to be an excellent crew member but doesn't always prepare you to be a great pilot. The best thing, in my mind, for low time pilots to instruct and find outside work like towing rags or acting as a ferry pilot.

Being an instructor has taught me a great deal but "how to fly" is not one of them.
 
If I had to choose between a guy who has "everything else" and a guy who can really fly an airplane, I'll go with "everything else" every day and twice on Sunday. The problem is the service volume of a VOR or the nitrogen concentration in blood at 20k is neither. You can teach NEITHER how to fly an airplane or the "everything else" (that's meaningful) in a classroom.
 
If I had to choose between a guy who has "everything else" and a guy who can really fly an airplane, I'll go with "everything else" every day and twice on Sunday. The problem is the service volume of a VOR or the nitrogen concentration in blood at 20k is neither. You can teach NEITHER how to fly an airplane or the "everything else" (that's meaningful) in a classroom.
:confused:
 

In short, classroom instruction prepares you to learn how to fly an airplane. Flying an airplane teaches you how to fly an airplane. Not the same thing. Taking someone out of a puppymill and throwing them in a jet is akin to taking someone from mechanic school, throwing them in a garage with a Ferrari, and saying "fix it, I'll be back tomorrow".
 
If I had to choose between a guy who has "everything else" and a guy who can really fly an airplane, I'll go with "everything else" every day and twice on Sunday. The problem is the service volume of a VOR or the nitrogen concentration in blood at 20k is neither. You can teach NEITHER how to fly an airplane or the "everything else" (that's meaningful) in a classroom.

I usually agree with you. However, on this I'll have to disagree.

There is NO reason that we can't have both. For some reason, on JC, education and experience seem mutually exclusive.

They are not, the discussion should be 100% INCLUSIVE of both.

In fact, isn't the motto of the famous FlightSafety "The best safety device in an aircraft is a well trained pilot..."?

Education, whether one desires to accept it or not, is just as important as experience. Not more important, nor less important than experience, but just as important.

We need to accept some facts that there are glaring holes in our training process on the civilian path to professional piloting.

Are military pilots highly desired for there superior flying skills? Egos aside, probably not. It has more to do with a consistent set of skills and knowledge acquired through the training process. You can even see this supplant experience as companies usually will hire military pilots with lower total time than people with straight civilian flying backgrounds.

In the civilian world, and many of you probably won't like reading this, there is such a huge spread in quality of training. From the University programs, like Purdue and UND that have a very structured training environment geared to put one in a professional cockpit from day one to the very good, but very low volume Part 61 school off in the middle of nowhere at the one end of the spectrum. At the other end is the FAA-minimum required training pilot mills. Unless someone is very familiar with the output of a specific school, one can not be sure of their training standards.

How do I know that FAA training minimums may not be the best? The insurance industry and the various other rating systems (such as IOSA) that drive more in-depth and specific training requirements.
 
I usually agree with you. However, on this I'll have to disagree.

There is NO reason that we can't have both. For some reason, on JC, education and experience seem mutually exclusive.

I think the problem is that one is being presented as an alternative to the other.

How do I know that FAA training minimums may not be the best? The insurance industry and the various other rating systems (such as IOSA) that drive more in-depth and specific training requirements.

The insurance requirements with which I'm familiar specify a certain amount and type of training (and I don't mean Advanced Human Factors 23 in a nice air-conditioned building in Florida) AND a certain amount of experience in actually flying aircraft of various descriptions.

Certainly you need the training and the book knowledge. This shouldn't even be up for discussion. You should have those before you get your first paycheck for flying an airplane. What I see being advanced, however, is the notion that a certain amount or type of training is an effective replacement for experience in operating an aviation appliance. I disagree in the strongest possible terms.
 
In short, classroom instruction prepares you to learn how to fly an airplane. Flying an airplane teaches you how to fly an airplane. Not the same thing. Taking someone out of a puppymill and throwing them in a jet is akin to taking someone from mechanic school, throwing them in a garage with a Ferrari, and saying "fix it, I'll be back tomorrow".
Sorry I thought you meant something else when you said you would prefer a guy with "everything else" over one who could really fly the airplane.
 
I don't understand why people are so upset over the 1500 hours and needing an ATP. I just got my ATP earlier this week. It wasn't that hard or that much more money to obtain. I have flight instructed for the past three years and am still doing so today.

Think back to the last 10 years of aviation. Right off the bat we have 9/11 which sent this industry into the darkest of darks. We slowly pulled through that and got to a point in which, for a brief time, airlines were hiring at extremely low hours. Right after this hiring stopped the economy tanked and all of those low time guys were furloughed.

Before 9/11 and right now it takes nearly all regionals over 1000-1200+ hours of flying to be considered. What I think people have failed to realize is this crazy bs of hiring 250-400 hour guys was an extremely RARE occurence! I may be mistaken but when did this kind of ridiculous low hour hiring happen in the 90's?

Don't think that just because it happend one time that this type of thing is the norm and that just because your a 300hr comm pilot that its your right to have an airline job. Work for it!

Chances are even if this 1500 ATP requirement was never established regionals would NEVER go back to hiring that low time of guys again. So you would still be having to work towards at minimum 1200 hours. So what are you complaining about again?

I am thrilled that the issue of crew fatigue and rest are going to be scrutinized and overhauled. This is so important in my opinion.
 
Back
Top