wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Lots of people instruct. In fact pre-9/11 my companies hiring mins were 2500 TT with 1000 turbine. That is at a commuter.
The CFI costs some money but you earn it back in just a few months of flying.
House, Senate pass 1500 rule, Rest rules, and more
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
Lots of people instruct. In fact pre-9/11 my companies hiring mins were 2500 TT with 1000 turbine. That is at a commuter.
The CFI costs some money but you earn it back in just a few months of flying.
Mike H
Well-Known Member
1. Of course it will do more harm than good- it's a product of congress
2. Does congress ever look into the consequences of the laws they pass?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Not to mention read line item #10. Academic courses can count against the 1500 requirement. I thought the 1500 requirement was about putting experienced pilots in the seat? Not just educated ones. Superfluous. All this will do is further inflate the cost of tuition at Embry Riddle. Think "PFJ" type rating like, but at a higher level.
The fact that someone was able to spur 50 families and call them to action to get rules that haven't be changed for decades however is pretty incredible. I applaud their determination. I'm just concerned about where the government is going to take it, and if it will do more harm than good.
The fact that someone was able to spur 50 families and call them to action to get rules that haven't be changed for decades however is pretty incredible. I applaud their determination. I'm just concerned about where the government is going to take it, and if it will do more harm than good.
"The Air Line Transport License will continue to require a minimum of 1,500 flight hours except that specific academic training courses may be applied and credited toward the 1,500 flight hour requirement. A final rule must be enacted within three years from the date this bill becomes law."
Could this be the opening needed for the accredited university flight programs such as und, erau and other schools currently offering four year aviation degrees?
Could this be the opening needed for the accredited university flight programs such as und, erau and other schools currently offering four year aviation degrees?
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
ALPA is sending 2 representatives to give them guidance on FO qualifications. One from MAG and one from UAL.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
This in itself was worth the effort. All I really did was put together some website stuff and prod people to write letters.
It's the fact that we can in fact take action after an accident and become actively involved in the process of making change for the better is what makes it really worth it.
What we've seen here is this: A determined, grass roots movement with focused, dedicating lobbying can in fact create change. It's not all about who has what official in their pocket or who can write the biggest check.
We, as aviators, as airline professionals, as individuals- as AMERICANS... spoke up.. and changed the course of our industry.
That's a huge turning point and a major feather in our collective cap, IMHO.
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
So is the new allatps marketing strategy "quick, enroll before you will need 1500 hours?" 
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
The captain didn't when he first started working at a 121 carrier, Gulfstream. Neither did the FO. Maybe he would have done a few more stalls with students if he didn't buy his way in at 250hrs.
Bandit_Driver
Gold Member
This must have been put to keep all the schools happy. Unfortunately, book work can't replace good old fashioned experience
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Can you not see how what time they were hired at is inconsequential to the outcome?
In fact, they were better off than someone hired @ 1500 hours to the airlines because they had that much more time to learn in that environment.
The CA had ~3500 hours, the FO had 2200 hours.
So you're telling me the CA doing stalls as a CFI would better prepare him for getting out of the stall that happened that night? Really?
What about someone who builds time flying a 152 around? Why isn't the requirement to become a CFI then? Does the new law stipulate that you must have XXXX of dual given time?
Number1atNumber2
Tries to keep it fun.
It's the community college of flight schools. :bandit:
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
No, I think the fact that both pilot bypassed mastering the fundamentals had EVERYTHING to do with the outcome.
If both of them had spent a year doing stalls with students they might have recovered. Instead, they went right to 121 land where they never saw a real stall.
RE: credit for college aviation courses. Even if ERAU grads get credit for 500 of those hours, it will still make people spend some real time in the air before they get to fly a large jet.
To all the people crying about how this is pulling up the ladder. Actually it is reverting to the basic minimums that were always there (except for 06-07). 2500 TT and 1000 multi was the basic minimums for a Turboprop FO for a long time before the RJ boom started recently.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Never saw a real stall? Dude they probably did hundreds as a private, instrument, and commercial student.
If they could recover from a stall as a student pilot how did they not know how to recover years later?!? After doing many more?
I respect what you have done but this is becoming asinine.
Folks, the problem with the Colgan crew was not the hours they had but the training they got at Colgan. You had a pattern that was never fixed or adressed. I agree 250 hours for a commercial pilot (121) is way too low and upping the hours is a good thing but the issue that needs to be fixed was/is Colgan training and probably other airlines as well.
USMCmech
Well-Known Member
Stalls for the PPL cert are a joke, I never did any for instrument, and only a few for commercial. Many students are scared to death of them and never want to see one again after they pass a checkride.
It takes about 2000 repetitions to create true muscle memory where a response is instinctive. As a Marine I practiced clearing a jam from my weapon several thousand times. I haven't touched a M-16 in 10 years, but I still know "Tap Rack Bang".
Could the airlines raise hiring standards and improve training? Absouletly. Then when the boom times happen again, they will just lower them again to put warm bodies in the cockpit. Now those warm bodies will at least have spent a year flying in some capacity.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
As a CFI you demonstrate a few times and the student does the majority of the stalls. It's not like you are doing the stalls FOR the students...
Debunked
SpiraMirabilis
Possible Subversive
I would agree that was a problem, but I don't think it was or is confine to Colgan. In many 121 PCs you are trained to pass the check, more emphasis is given to recovering from a stall with "minimum loss of altitude" by powering out of a stall. It's very choreographed maneuver, when this happens pitch up X degrees then when this happens add full power and hold Y degrees and you'll pass.
It doesn't really teach you anything about stalls. And this is the whole exposure the captain had to stalls was 121 check rides since he passed his CPL.