Hot fuel.

Roger Roger said:
Actually sounds pretty similar on a legs per hour basis to what we do. Turbine does just fine. Our round motors run longer legs and longer turns though. Short distances but it takes a while to get anywhere in a beaver on floats.
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Most agricultural ops though are in the 20-30 minutes per load. I was always doing low volume work that was not close to the strip, thus I was away longer.

During rice fertilizing season, you could be looking at 30-40 cycles a day. By the time you allow the ITT to stabilize after landing (no taxi time), shut down, motor until an acceptable temperature for start is reached, stabilized after start (remember, no taxi time), the loader is standing off to the side having finished loading the airplane eons ago.

In the end, it ends up being more efficient to just let the engine run.

Did I mention the air conditioner? :D
 
ctab5060X said:
Most agricultural ops though are in the 20-30 minutes per load. I was always doing low volume work that was not close to the strip, thus I was away longer.

During rice fertilizing season, you could be looking at 30-40 cycles a day. By the time you allow the ITT to stabilize after landing (no taxi time), shut down, motor until an acceptable temperature for start is reached, stabilized after start (remember, no taxi time), the loader is standing off to the side having finished loading the airplane eons ago.

In the end, it ends up being more efficient to just let the engine run.

Did I mention the air conditioner? :D
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30-40 cycles a day is a lot! We average just over 2 cycles per hour on our turbine.
 
I was doing time crosswind landing practice with a student at an uncontrolled field once, (Massey ranch,for you Florida guys) and we pulled off to take a break. We parked in the grass next to the building and there were two c152s from a nearby flight school parked there with props turning. Upon closer inspection I realized that they were empty with parking breaks set. I shut them both down and grabbed the keys. When I entered the FBO (more of just an empty building with a couch and a tv), I find four Indian flight students sitting there watching tv! I said, "hey, you guys know anything about these 152s out there running with no one in em? ". They said "yes, we are time building!"(in chorus of Indian accents). "Not anymore your not!" And I took the keys and brought them to that flight school and told them they had four Indians and two 152s stuck on the ramp at Massey ranch. Hahahaha. Idiots.
 
Joepilot84 said:
I was doing time crosswind landing practice with a student at an uncontrolled field once, (Massey ranch,for you Florida guys) and we pulled off to take a break. We parked in the grass next to the building and there were two c152s from a nearby flight school parked there with props turning. Upon closer inspection I realized that they were empty with parking breaks set. I shut them both down and grabbed the keys. When I entered the FBO (more of just an empty building with a couch and a tv), I find four Indian flight students sitting there watching tv! I said, "hey, you guys know anything about these 152s out there running with no one in em? ". They said "yes, we are time building!"(in chorus of Indian accents). "Not anymore your not!" And I took the keys and brought them to that flight school and told them they had four Indians and two 152s stuck on the ramp at Massey ranch. Hahahaha. Idiots.
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Wow.
 
Hawks said:
Wow.
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Suprising, but years ago when working at the FBO in LGB, I watched an indian student who was short some time, the day before his ride, sit in a running 152 for an hour and a half on the ramp while it was solid IFR out....I have a feeling the examiner looked the other way on that one. He was bragging about it, watching movies on his ipad, etc.

Our honer system really isn't the best for those who do not understand the concept.

But I digress...
 
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Whoa. This thread has me wondering how often this happens elsewhere -- at my FBO if we hot fuel anything we just give the pilots our badges, clock out, and go home.

See you later, I'll be at the bar.
 
happened at UND about six or seven years ago. Chinese students were caught taking warriors out on solo "cross countries" except instead of going on their cross countries, they stopped at closer uncontrolled fields and proceeded to "time build" from the FBO couch.
 
Joepilot84 said:
I was doing time crosswind landing practice with a student at an uncontrolled field once, (Massey ranch,for you Florida guys) and we pulled off to take a break. We parked in the grass next to the building and there were two c152s from a nearby flight school parked there with props turning. Upon closer inspection I realized that they were empty with parking breaks set. I shut them both down and grabbed the keys. When I entered the FBO (more of just an empty building with a couch and a tv), I find four Indian flight students sitting there watching tv! I said, "hey, you guys know anything about these 152s out there running with no one in em? ". They said "yes, we are time building!"(in chorus of Indian accents). "Not anymore your not!" And I took the keys and brought them to that flight school and told them they had four Indians and two 152s stuck on the ramp at Massey ranch. Hahahaha. Idiots.
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I saw this at KOBE as well. It happens.
 
gotWXdagain said:
happened at UND about six or seven years ago. Chinese students were caught taking warriors out on solo "cross countries" except instead of going on their cross countries, they stopped at closer uncontrolled fields and proceeded to "time build" from the FBO couch.
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That's nuts. Actually flying and having fun with it seems like a way better use of funds.
 
Well, I've certainly learned some things reading this thread…scary things. Things that make me glad to be retired.

But in keeping with the concept of yin & yang, hot fueling has its counterpart in "cold fueling". Allow me to tell a story about cold fueling from a few years ago. You might enjoy it.

Back in the day (circa 1970ish), we were doing lots of domestic Civil Air Movement (CAM) flying for the DoD. We did some pretty entertaining stuff.

One trip involved hopping down the Worst Coast to a few military bases picking up military criminal prisoners with the goal of taking them to a military prison in Pease, NH, to be locked up, I assume for a long time. Murderers, rapists, those kinda swell folks.

Well, the airplane wouldn't do the last leg nonstop. We had to fuel stop at a Midwest military base which I remember was Ft. Campbell, KY, an Army Air Base, IIRC. And in the middle of the night.

We get there and are told that not only can we not refuel with engines running (wouldn't do that anyway), but we can't even refuel with the APU running…OR ANYBODY ON THE AIRPLANE !!!

Yep…nobody…no criminals…no crew…no APU.

So…here's the picture: airplane full of hardened criminals…on their last stop before the Big House…in the middle of the night…in the middle of Nowhere, KY. And we have to take all of 'em off the airplane to get fuel.

I guess we should've suspected something was up when we pulled into the ramp and were met by a bunch of young soldiers with shotguns…many young soldiers with shotguns.

Well, we took all those bad guys off the airplane (not sure what they did with them…I was kinda busy), shut down the APU, got fuel, put the bad guys back on the airplane and went to Pease.

There was a USMC Colonel hitching a ride with us. When he saw what was happening, flames, smoke, thunder and lightening bolts came out of his head. He grabbed some poor PFC and told him to take him to Base Ops…where he was going to call the Base Commander (about 0300 now) and read him the Riot Act about what was happening.

We still had to "cold fuel".

Yin & yang.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Suprising, but years ago when working at the FBO in LGB, I watched an indian student who was short some time, the day before his ride, sit in a running 152 for an hour and a half on the ramp while it was solid IFR out....I have a feeling the examiner looked the other way on that one. He was bragging about it, watching movies on his ipad, etc.

Our honer system really isn't the best for those who do not understand the concept.

But I digress...
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Easy way to put a stop to that. ..airspeed switch for the Hobbs meter.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Suprising, but years ago when working at the FBO in LGB, I watched an indian student who was short some time, the day before his ride, sit in a running 152 for an hour and a half on the ramp while it was solid IFR out....I have a feeling the examiner looked the other way on that one. He was bragging about it, watching movies on his ipad, etc.

Our honer system really isn't the best for those who do not understand the concept.

But I digress...
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That brings it to the next step of wow.
 
ctab5060X said:
Common practice in any agricultural operation. I've had days where I started the R-1340 at first light and finally pulled the mixture when it got too dark so see again. Hot fueled all day long, as well as check/add engine oil, eat, take restroom breaks, etc... all with that big radial purring away.

The thing is, we coordinated everything so the airplane was never unattended. Rule was the first indication something was abnormal, shut everything down and stop.
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You can do (most, anyway) anything safely with proper procedures and safeguards. We have hot fueling/servicing procedures on the 175, even, should it become necessary. Although the manual is going to be in my lap for that.

Like you said, doing it tended and responsibly is different from pulling up, setting the brakes, hopping out and tanking up.
 
T/O w/FSII said:
Suprising, but years ago when working at the FBO in LGB, I watched an indian student who was short some time, the day before his ride, sit in a running 152 for an hour and a half on the ramp while it was solid IFR out....I have a feeling the examiner looked the other way on that one. He was bragging about it, watching movies on his ipad, etc.

Our honor system really isn't the best for those who do not understand the concept.

But I digress...
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The casino on the reservation, or his government welfare stipend, was probably funding all this..

bafanguy said:
Well, the airplane wouldn't do the last leg nonstop. We had to fuel stop at a Midwest military base which I remember was Ft. Campbell, KY, an Army Air Base, IIRC. And in the middle of the night.

............

There was a USMC Colonel hitching a ride with us. When he saw what was happening, flames, smoke, thunder and lightening bolts came out of his head. He grabbed some poor PFC and told him to take him to Base Ops…where he was going to call the Base Commander (about 0300 now) and read him the Riot Act about what was happening.

We still had to "cold fuel".

Yin & yang.
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AAFs don't generally hot fuel transient FW aircraft, or anything that isn't rolling through the FARP....or helo refuel area. It's just not something they're used to, and it's never done out of a truck refuel for transient (again, unless it's FARP). However, APU shouldn't be an issue, don't know why it was. Even USAF installations won't hot fuel other than their own based aircraft, and that's again in hot fuel areas. USN and USMC installations often do hot fuel for their helos, again at fixed, established hot fuel points. Just very rare to see it for FW aircraft, if at all.
 
MikeD said:
The casino on the reservation, or his government welfare stipend, was probably funding all this..
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The Indians I was referring to were from India, and their rich parents were paying for their training. Not sure which type of Indian he was referring to though.
 
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