Holy !@#$ Insurance is expensive!!

[38bat]

I finally got around to calling the insurance company about a potential purchase. I am looking at an Apache with the Geronimo mods(still 160hp engines). I almost choked! Over 6k a year for a cheap old plane!! Sounds like time to take the chance and go without insurance. Anybody else have an idea? I am looking for a family hauler/time builder. This plane fits the bill and is cheap to buy and easy on fuel. I am in Florida so no big hills and most of my trips are within 600 miles. Open to suggestions!

 

[surreal1221]

What would this potential insurance cover?

Would your life insurance or anyone else's life insurance (you do have life insurance right?) still pay out if you were flying in an uninsured aircraft?

 

[MQAAord]

Yup. Dad had a HELLuva time finding insurance when he opened his engine shop. Rates were/are insane.

 

[38bat]

Well, really the insurance covers the plane and liability. Nothing to do with life insurance. I have flown uninsured before and financially I could handle a total loss of the plane(seems unlikely but the risk is always there) so I guess the main thing I worry about is the liability. Maybe just aim for the uninhabited areas! From what I understand, once I have 50-100 hrs in type it should go down by at least 50% so maybe I will chance it for a few months...

 

[t-cart]

What kind of times do you have? TT-Inst.-Multi? That seems high to me.

 

[CK]

It is all about the broker you use. Call Howard Fry and Son:

800-408-2621

They are the best insurance guys out there. The deals they have been able to work out for me and my friends have been nothing but amazing. They got me insured in the Conquest for less than our old broker got me insured in our 414 (and the Conquest had twice the hull value!). A 500 hour friend of mine was able to get insured in a 421 for $11,000. Another broker wanted $18,000 a year to put him in a Seneca!?!

Alex.

 

[matt152]

I guess it depends on whether you can self-insure (financially handle a total loss and not have to sell the kids or wife into slavery). If you are paying cash for the plane it's your call. If not, the financing company will require a specified minimum coverage.

$6k sounds steep.

 

[38bat]

What kind of times do you have? TT-Inst.-Multi? That seems high to me.

Admittedly my times are low(around 200tt no ME yet). I have a Cherokee now so I was asking him what I needed to do if I wanted to move up. He was quoting me basically with a wet commercial. He said getting instructor ratings would not help with insurance.

 

[matt152]

Admittedly my times are low(around 200tt no ME yet). I have a Cherokee now so I was asking him what I needed to do if I wanted to move up. He was quoting me basically with a wet commercial.

Was the quote for a commercial cert with no multi? I would think that with maybe 25 hours in type it would come down.

 

[falconvalley]

I think the 2nd engine makes a huge deal. Light twins are considered to be much more dangerous than SE piston a/c. My dad and I owned a 152 for a few years. It was only $500 a year to insure it. He had nearly 0 time in 152s and less than 100 in Cessnas. At the time I had about 700 hours TT, 600 in Cessnas and about 200 of that in 152s. He was an ATP with 5000+ hours and I was still a CSEL, CMEL, CFI.

 

[esa17]

Admittedly my times are low(around 200tt no ME yet). I have a Cherokee now so I was asking him what I needed to do if I wanted to move up. He was quoting me basically with a wet commercial. He said getting instructor ratings would not help with insurance.

Once you have 50hrs in type that will help some but the biggest thing you can do is an instrument rating. My commercial certificate did little to nothing to my insurance on my Mooney but an instrument rating cuts it in half.

Always keep in mind however that when you add the extra engine fatality rates jump 80% so insurance companies make you pay to play.

 

[38bat]

Once you have 50hrs in type that will help some but the biggest thing you can do is an instrument rating. My commercial certificate did little to nothing to my insurance on my Mooney but an instrument rating cuts it in half.

Always keep in mind however that when you add the extra engine fatality rates jump 80% so insurance companies make you pay to play.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, that quote includes an instrument rating. It is definately the twin/retractable because insurance on my 160hp cherokee with close to the same hull value is $700 a year.

 

[esa17]

Wow...even if you didn't have the instrument rating I still wouldn't have thought the quote would be $6000. Try another insurance company, talk to other pilots on field, and see who they might recommend.

 

[t-cart]

As the others have said, check around. I have my stock 58' Apache 160 insured for $50,000 with full coverage limits(not sure the limits without getting the policy out) on liability for $2600. I have plenty of tt, but was pretty short on multi when I bought the airplane. I think I had to ride with an instructor for the first 15 hours.

 

[minitour]

Any CFI that gives instruction in an uninsured aircraft needs their head examined.

-mini

 

[matt152]

Any CFI that gives instruction in an uninsured aircraft needs their head examined.

A little off-topic: I have wondered about this from time to time. Although I am affiliated with a flight school, there is the occasional opportunity to do a flight review in an owner-flown airplane. I never ask if these guys have insurance, but maybe I should.

I have seen the CFI insurance advertised through AOPA. Anyone know if this would cover this sort of situation? Is it worth it?

 

[Air 1]

If you're going to hanger it, you may want to check on the requirements that the airport has also. I know at my airport and I know of a few others that you have to show proof of insurance and they keep a copy of it in their records.

 

[38bat]

Any CFI that gives instruction in an uninsured aircraft needs their head examined.

-mini

Point taken. I am insured but I can tell you that many people are not. I know of at least half a dozen that I know personally. Never has been a problem with CFI's as none of them ask. Usually though, you have to have proof of insurance to get a hangar but not to park on the ramp.

 

[minitour]

A little off-topic: I have wondered about this from time to time. Although I am affiliated with a flight school, there is the occasional opportunity to do a flight review in an owner-flown airplane. I never ask if these guys have insurance, but maybe I should.

Make sure you are. Believe it or not, you can get blood from a stone.

Point taken. I am insured but I can tell you that many people are not. I know of at least half a dozen that I know personally. Never has been a problem with CFI's as none of them ask.

Not saying it doesn't happen, but they're putting themselves at great risk. It's just not worth it for a few hours of multiengine flight time.

-mini

 

[Bandit_Driver]

Definately call around and compare your options and try AOPA. You may also want to see if they can get cut your rate down if you fly with a "qualified" pilot for X number of hours. I know it saved a guy that owned a 206 some cash. He had to have a CFII with for his first 100 hrs in type or pay through the nose.

Before you go uninsured think about this. Losing the aircraft may be acceptable, but could you pay off a multi-million dollar civil suit if something happened to someone on the ground or in the plane?

Also check on your life insurance policy. I am 5000+ hour ATP and my life insurance will not pay out if I fly a GA aircraft. If I am flying a company aircraft under 121 then it isn't a problem. State Farm's view GA flying is that it is very hazardous to one's health. I even had to get a rider just to cover my 121 flying.