Hats at 'Merican?

The checkairman wings thing is lame-o. Nice divide and conquer tactic. Appeals to people's "ooooh, look at me, I got a trophy, I'm special".

We went through a similar thing with wings at Northernjets. Ultimately it was put to a survey, and the pilot group overwhelmingly voted to keep the same wings, which were the same "airmail" wings that the airline had used since 1926 (they had been designed for the US Airmail service)

The wings were the identical for all pilots. And that sends much better message, IMHO.

Merry Xmas. Don't let the evil robot Santa get ya...

Richman
 
Cav said:
Why does it suck to not look like a low class moron?
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While I personally wear the suit, I don't think the leather jacket looks bad. I imagine it's also nice if you don't want to pack a separate heavy jacket for a cold layover. Just take your wings and epaulets off and go to dinner.
 
Hacker15e said:
I know -- I was in the public eye wearing uniforms of various types for the last 25 years or so in my last career. I get that people care how they look and what it is like to wear clothes that someone else has chosen for many hours of the day. People bitched about a lot of uniform things in the blue service I was in, too...and it was just as dumb there.

How many times have we had people here on JC tout the idea that, "its not your airplane, so fly it the way that the guy writing the checks wants you to"? Solid advice, even when you disagree with the guy.

I say the same about the clothes that same guy wants you to wear, and how he wants you to wear them, when you're doing that very same job.

Embracing that idea will save a lot of panties from getting wedged in a lot of crevasses over stupid stuff.
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Just make sure your reflective belt is on at all times.

He is clearly someone JC can be proud of saying is one of our own. We had a great time.
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You don't need to blow smoke. JTrain is, has been, and always will be, a complete and utter hack masquerading as an airline pilot. There's no two ways about it.
 
Cav said:
Why does it suck to not look like a low class moron?
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Leather jackets = someone who is a low class moron?

Guess the 8th Air Force from WWII has a new descriptor for themselves. :D

No, but seriously, I think someone can look professional in a leather jacket, as much as they can in a suit coat. It's all how they carry themselves, present themselves, and if they wear their uniform proudly and properly. That said, you'll find jackasses in suit coats, just as you will find professionals in leather jackets, and vice versa.
 
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MikeD said:
Leather jackets = someone who is a low class moron?

Guess the 8th Air Force from WWII has a new descriptor for themselves. :D

No, but seriously, I think someone can look professional in a leather jacket, as much as they can in a suit coat. It's all how they carry themselves, present themselves, and if they wear their uniform proudly and properly. That said, you'll find jackasses in suit coats, just as you will find professionals in leather jackets, and vice versa.
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The 8th AF could wear tutus and need not apologize to anyone. Leather jackets in an airline setting look ridiculous.
 
MikeD said:
Leather jackets = someone who is a low class moron?

Guess the 8th Air Force from WWII has a new descriptor for themselves. :D

No, but seriously, I think someone can look professional in a leather jacket, as much as they can in a suit coat. It's all how they carry themselves, present themselves, and if they wear their uniform proudly and properly. That said, you'll find jackasses in suit coats, just as you will find professionals in leather jackets, and vice versa.
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We're not flying (or crewing) open air aircraft or flying in the flight levels where there are below freezing temperatures in uninsulated aircraft with no environmental controls.

World War I

In World War I, most airplanes did not have an enclosed cockpit, so pilots had to wear something that would keep them sufficiently warm. The U.S. Army officially established the Aviation Clothing Board in September 1917 and began distributing heavy-duty leather flight jackets; with high wraparound collars, zipper closures with wind flaps, snug cuffs and waists, and some fringed and lined with fur.

World War II

Leslie Irvin first designed and manufactured the classic sheepskin flying jacket. In 1926 he set up a manufacturing company in the United Kingdom, and became the main supplier of flying jackets to the Royal Air Force during most of World War II. However, the demand during the early years of the war was so great that the Irvin company engaged subcontractors, which explains the slight variations of design and colour that can be seen in early production Irvin flying jackets.

As aerospace technology improved, the altitudes at which aircraft operated increased. Most heavy bombing raids in Europe during World War II took place from altitudes of at least 25,000 ft, where ambient temperatures could reach as cold as negative 50 degrees Celsius (negative 58 Fahrenheit). The cabins of these aircraft were uninsulated, so a warm, thick flight jacket was an essential piece of equipment for every member of the crew.

Flight jackets in the United States

Today, flight jackets are usually associated with the MA-1, a now-obsolete U.S. military jacket, which is mostly found in sage green. It is made with flight silk nylon and usually has a blaze orange lining, with the specification tag in the pocket, though earlier models had a sage-green lining and the specification tag on the neck area. It has two slanted flap pockets on the front, two inner pockets, and a zipped pocket with pen holders on the left sleeve. The lighter weight version of the MA-1 is known as the L-2B flight jacket, which in turn, replaced both the original L2 and L2A jackets, which all three differentiate from the MA-1 as they have snap-down epaulets and no inside pockets. The military flight jackets currently used today are the CWU-45P (for colder weather) and the CWU-36P (for warmer weather); both are made from Nomex.

Civilian uses

Flight jackets have been popular with skinheads and scooterboys from the 1970s onwards. In 1993, it was worn as the "national costume" of the United States for the APEC meeting held in Seattle, Washington. In the early 2000s, the jacket was popular casual wear in hip-hop fashion. The jacket has also caught on with several police departments across the United States for its sturdy design and heavy insulation.

I'm speechless that someone would correlate wearing a leather "bomber" jacket to a professional airline environment. Bomber jackets had their uses in past history, but their place is not in a professional 121 environment in the 2000's. We should portray an image of a polished professional, not of a WWI pilot flying a biplane.
 
skyw82 said:
I would just be happy if people just wore the company tie.



It grew on me.
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The double breasted jacket was something that you had to actually see in person. A majority of wear testers, once they wore the double breasted, preferred it more than the single breasted due to the design looking more polished. Even the union leadership acknowledged that it looked "sharp" and professional. The problems were:

1) The company needed to make a decision and just tell us what we were going to wear (it's their airline)
2) The union leadership didn't want to upset the general leadership so pushed for the single breasted (even though they knew it wasn't the best option)

I will say however that it would've been a PITA to wear all the time, even though it was easy to button and unbutton. While I loved the polished look of the double breasted design, I acknowledge that it just wasn't practical.

Getting rid of the leather jacket is the best thing the company could've done IMO to improve our polished image. It was needed and I'm sorry for the guys who bought $400 jackets, I really am, but they have no place in our environment, and they look sloppy.

I'll be wearing the issued hat as long as they stick with the second test's Premiere Hat CO design; personally I wish they were mandatory, I felt it improves the image and differentiates us from the other employee groups.
 
wheelsup said:
Getting rid of the leather jacket is the best thing the company could've done IMO to improve our polished image. It was needed and I'm sorry for the guys who bought $400 jackets, I really am, but they have no place in our environment, and they look sloppy.
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I'm still wondering what moron spends $400 on a single uniform piece. Especially that one. It's a Members Only jacket. Just leather and more expensive. They both look equally hideous.
 
wheelsup said:
We're not flying (or crewing) open air aircraft or flying in the flight levels where there are below freezing temperatures in uninsulated aircraft with no environmental controls.

I'm speechless that someone would correlate wearing a leather "bomber" jacket to a professional airline environment. Bomber jackets had their uses in past history, but their place is not in a professional 121 environment in the 2000's. We should portray an image of a polished professional, not of a WWI pilot flying a biplane.
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Professionalism doesn't necessarily mean one singular uniform item of issue. I think a lot of it depends on the culture of the particular operation.

When I'm at the airport, I see some pilots dressed as "polished professionals" in terms of a type of uniform, yet with 250+ lbs of gut hanging out in front of them and/or with car bumper stickers all over their flight/overnight bag. Didn't seem the most professional look to me, but then again I have no idea what their skill set or demeanor is......they could be some of the best pilots, or the best customer service minded people you've seen. Or they can be the worst too, who knows. You can dress the part, but still end up with either jerks who you wouldn't want to spend an hour in the cockpit with, or guys whose skills aren't the greatest. Same can be said for someone wearing a single breasted jacket, a double breasted jacket, an issued leather jacket as an overcoat, or even a short sleeve shirt with tie (fashion faux pas though that may be).....professionals and non-professionals come in all types. :)

It's the same thing as arguing whether a hat or no hat, makes one a professional 121 pilot. The answer is neither. Just wear what your particular operation requires, or what they allow as options. That right there is professional in terms of image.....following the company requirements. Professional in terms of ability or discipline is a whole another matter.

Why people lose sleep over what one wears, that's within their approved company policy, is indeed odd. If a particular company allows it, great. If a particular company doesn't allow it, great. If it's required, wear it. If it isn't or is an option, then do or don't.

At least the leather jacket still looks aviator-like. And is about one limit of what I as a member of the flying public would still equate to an aviator. Personally, I think the American flag neckties I see some guys wear are kind of over the top and don't really match the uniform coat....whether leather or suit coat...... as opposed to a standard black tie, but whatever. If it's approved, then it's a legit option.
 
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MikeD said:
Professionalism doesn't necessarily mean one singular uniform item of issue. I think a lot of it depends on the culture of the particular operation.

When I'm at the airport, I see some pilots dressed as "polished professionals" in terms of a type of uniform, yet with 250+ lbs of gut hanging out in front of them and/or with car bumper stickers all over their flight/overnight bag. Didn't seem the most professional look to me, but then again I have no idea what their skill set or demeanor is......they could be some of the best pilots, or the best customer service minded people you've seen. Or they can be the worst too, who knows. You can dress the part, but still end up with either jerks who you wouldn't want to spend an hour in the cockpit with, or guys whose skills aren't the greatest. Same can be said for someone wearing a single breasted jacket, a double breasted jacket, an issued leather jacket as an overcoat, or even a short sleeve shirt with tie (fashion faux pas though that may be).....professionals and non-professionals come in all types. :)

It's the same thing as arguing whether a hat or no hat, makes one a professional 121 pilot. The answer is neither. Just wear what your particular operation requires, or what they allow as options. That right there is professional in terms of image.....following the company requirements. Professional in terms of ability or discipline is a whole another matter.

Why people lose sleep over what one wears, that's within their approved company policy, is indeed odd. If a particular company allows it, great. If a particular company doesn't allow it, great. If it's required, wear it. If it isn't or is an option, then do or don't.

At least the leather jacket still looks aviator-like. And is about one limit of what I as a member of the flying public would still equate to an aviator. Personally, I think the American flag neckties I see some guys wear are kind of over the top and don't really match the uniform coat....whether leather or suit coat...... as opposed to a standard black tie, but whatever. If it's approved, then it's a legit option.
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You're confusing the "looking professional" with the "being professional".

Both are important, and they can still be mutually exclusive. IMO, as pilots for an airline, we should be looking to hit both marks on point.

To your comment on weight, personally, to me, an overweight (vs height) individual "looks unprofessional" regardless of what clothes they wear. Lacking self control is not a professional trait IMO.
 
It is generational. My parents and grandparents look at a pilot wearing a leather jacket and see him as a professional and want him as their pilot. They see a pilot wearing a blazer and think it is a "male stewardess" and don't trust him. Just an observation.
 
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