Hard Landing

[A300Capt]

That's exactly right. The 757 nose will drop pretty quickly after spoiler deployment, while the 767 has a pitch up tendency. As someone that flies the 757 90% of the time, and considering I may have something like 10 actual landings in the 767 in the year and a half I've been here between all the relief and PM legs, it still catches me off guard. Even telling myself that on final my reflex to catch the nose kicks in but luckily quickly stops as soon as I feel it going the other way.

Honestly as a former structural engineer that worked for the manufacturer in question, i don't see how a regular "oh • i let the nose drop hard" moment can cause that kind of damage. Besides considering a 767 initially pitches up like we originally said it shouldn't be that dramatic. To me that takes either touching down nosewheel first or slamming it down with full nose down elevator input. Would love to see the FOQA data if they ever publish it

I had been flying the B757 for several years (and teaching in the training center) when our first B767-300 arrived. We basically got a small homestudy on differences and then given the keys to fly it anywhere. They are different animals regardless of having a common type rating. I remember talking another friend/instructor, who had 1 leg in the new B767, if he would be my f/o on first trip out to OAK since his one leg was one more than I had. The whole airplane just felt “different”. The power, the feel, noise..etc. I had no idea about the pitch up tendency on touchdown. The flight was uneventful but there was this underlying feeling of being a little uncomfortable in the new machine. There was just enough differences between the B757 and B767 that it was throwing my whole mojo off.

Flew the ILS to RW29 (at the time). Started my normal B757 flare which usually ended with a greaser and *BAM!* (WTF)….the Eagle had landed..badly! Before I was able to react to the rather “firm” landing hoping I hadn’t blown a tire or scratched UPS’s newest bird, the nose started pitching up and I found myself aggressively pushing forward instead of the usual pulling back on the B757. Fortunately I was able to somewhat salvage a portion of the landing by lowering the nose gear gently onto the tarmac. Lesson learned.

I spent my last few years on the fleet flying the B767 almost exclusively and definitely became much more comfortable in it but the initial landings were painful to my ego and the f/o’s back…..Oh, and I learned the f/o calling out “3 wire” wasn’t necessarily a compliment either.

 

[Kingairer]

I really hate it for those guys/girls as long as they weren’t doing anything stupid. We’ve all planted airplanes in sometimes totally unexpectedly. The “stare at the ceiling time”
would be high after something like this I don’t wish it on anyone.

Also, another reason I don’t want to be a check airmen

 

[Landis]

 

[///AMG]

Oh, and I learned the f/o calling out “3 wire” wasn’t necessarily a compliment either.

I mean, they could be calling another less desirable one Though to be fair, they mostly all feel the same.......

 

[Apophis]

What are we getting at here? What airframe should first year folks start out on? I and plenty other folks went to the 75/76 at Brown and many other places and have yet to smash one up.

ATR captain buddy of mine went straight from the ATR into the MD-11 at purple. Zero jet time before the MD as well.

No issues.

 

[phill1174]

Been 20+ yrs since I flew the B76/75 but I seem to remember after main gear touchdown and spoiler deployment, one had a tendency to pitch up while the other had a pitch down tendency. It wasn’t unusual for a student to fly their entire IOE on the B767 and then get a release to the line check on a B757 or visa versa.

Granted, after touchdown you should initially freeze the pitch attitude for a couple seconds by doing whatever is necessary with the yoke and then slowly lower the nose. However, the student may have over anticipated what was required based on previous B757 flights. On the other hand….maybe he/they just f&cked it up.

That’s usually what I expect with the 75 but I had a “greaser” the other night and it just hung out there for a sec in the landing pitch attitude. I had to give it a nudge forward to start the de rotation. Hopefully the FOQA data comes out. I’d like to learn something from this.

 

[phill1174]

ATR captain buddy of mine went straight from the ATR into the MD-11 at purple. Zero jet time before the MD as well.

No issues.

That’s awesome! I’ve heard the MD isn’t easy to hack for some. It looks like a great airplane to fly though.

 

[ERfly]

That’s awesome! I’ve heard the MD isn’t easy to hack for some. It looks like a great airplane to fly though.

She's a different animal, for sure. No other airplane flies like she does.

Having said that, the MD-11 training is the best program I've ever been through. Sure, it's long, but the training is designed to have you feeling comfortable in the airplane. The Landing Performance Team helped develop a curriculum after Narita that heavily focuses on runway safety training.

The whole training program is designed for success and I'd argue that it has the best instructors we have.

 

[roundout]

ATR captain buddy of mine went straight from the ATR into the MD-11 at purple. Zero jet time before the MD as well.

No issues.

If you can fly the ATR, you can fly anything.