Hard Landing

[EIR]

This is not the first time one of these has had similar damage due to aggressive de-rotating. I think Omni did something very similar

Indeed they did and the aircraft is flying again. There were quite a few MEL’s on this aircraft including auto speed brakes, which was a contributing factor; the airport at which it happened is known for the mechanical turbulence coming off the Lufthansa hangar. The CA happens to be a good friend of mine.

 

[Roger Roger]

They (we at the time, I guess) certainly did. IMS, somebody was on IOE, can't remember which somebody. In any case, autospoilers deferred, bounced landing, spoilers manually deployed while back in the air, kerplop, apologies all around. They finally got it back in the air, but the rumor was they only fixed it to avoid having a hull loss on the record, ie it was not economical to fix.

Indeed they did and the aircraft is flying again. There were quite a few MEL’s on this aircraft including auto speed brakes, which was a contributing factor; the airport at which it happened is known for the mechanical turbulence coming off the Lufthansa hangar. The CA happens to be a good friend of mine

Thanks for confirming this, I said it and then could only find the Atlas one and wondered if I was losing it. Well, I mean I am, but not in this one

 

[EIR]

I’m willing to bet that 76 will be fixed and have a cargo door cut within the next few years.

 

[form810]

Truth. Interstellar is basically about the end of the world as we know it. They're on a spaceship to find humanity a new home as earth dies and… What do we see in the background?

Riaaaght. And they killed earth. So, you know, what's the point? Economic growth?? Greater profits for General Motors, and General Dynamics, and General Schwartzkopf, and General Mills, and General Foods, and General Petraus? and eventually, Dollar General ('cause by then they're so 'tarded they can't even get the word order right)?? Humans poop where they eat wherever they go.

As the old koan advises: wherever you go, there YOU are.

 

[derg]

Riaaaght. And they killed earth. So, you know, what's the point? Economic growth?? Greater profits for General Motors, and General Dynamics, and General Schwartzkopf, and General Mills, and General Foods, and General Petraus? ?? Humans poop where they eat wherever they go.
As the old koan advises, wherever you go, there YOU are.

 

[form810]

View attachment 73011

My point ... precisely!

Hint: as every first grade teacher ever has told students, "use the context of the words to help yourself understand them." (at least I dearly HOPE that still the case.) For ease of understanding, I emboldened the words to which I was referring.

 

[derg]

It's a reference to a film that used a prop from what I thought was a 737.

The Hapsburgs and the Bildebergs went to the world bank, this was not.

 

[form810]

It's a reference to a film that used a prop from what I thought was a 737.

The Hapsburgs and the Bildebergs went to the world bank, this was not.

Fair enough, but the thread had already drifted by then through no fault of my own. As I said, I emboldened the words to which I was referring. And, after all ... digression is the essence of great literature, etc. (see Habsburgs and Bilderbergs... one's townfolk, the other from the mountains)

Also note the weirdness and spellings of German homonyms.

 

[JDean3204]

I tried my best a few times to test the 767 during landing (ABE short runway), never could get it to do that tho

 

[FlyingAccountant]

So is it 24 yr old noobs or a 64 yr old pushing for 67? Gotta know which demographic to blame.

The one at IAH was supposedly the right seater's IOE. Not sure about the IAD one.

Maybe UA can get a volume discount from Boeing for repair.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

So putting 1 yr guys in the 767 is having its expected toll at United and Delta. Yikes.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

I never understood guys who land on the main wheels and then PUSH the nose down trying to force the nose wheel onto the pavement, as if that act itself stops the physics of flight. News flash, it doesn’t. That’s a great recipe for a bounce. The nose wheel should be lowered gently. On both the 320 and 737, I find myself letting the airplane gently settle, involving *slight* back pressure to ease the nose down gently. You should barely feel the nose wheel touching if done correctly.

Guys who smash the nose forward are the ones who think being all 3 wheels down on pavement ASAP will end their flight and transition to ground-only mode at a high speed. Nope. Good recipe for a 3 point landing or a bounce. Some guys just quit flying once the main wheels touchdown and let the lord bring the nose wheel down hard.

Now I’m not saying do a wheelie (can’t stand those guys either), but somewhere in between is a happy medium with a nice derotation.

 

[form810]

I never understood guys who land on the main wheels and then PUSH the nose down trying to force the nose wheel onto the pavement, as if that act itself stops the physics of flight. News flash, it doesn’t. That’s a great recipe for a bounce. The nose wheel should be lowered gently. On both the 320 and 737, I find myself letting the airplane gently settle, involving *slight* back pressure to ease the nose down gently. You should barely feel the nose wheel touching if done correctly.

Guys who smash the nose forward are the ones who think being all 3 wheels down on pavement ASAP will end their flight and transition to ground-only mode at a high speed. Nope. Good recipe for a 3 point landing or a bounce. Some guys just quit flying once the main wheels touchdown and let the lord bring the nose wheel down hard.

Now I’m not saying do a wheelie (can’t stand those guys either), but somewhere in between is a happy medium with a nice derotation.

Aerodynamic breaking IS a thing, and it IS effected by pulling UP (slightly and in a nuanced fashion) after placing the mains on the ground. It really, really works, even WITH (especially WITH) the boards deployed. If you're REALLY good, you can even start to deploy brakes with the nose still in the air! (OK, YOU don't like that. OK.) Still, if you get all THAT, you're probably not the kind of dude who is going to attempt to land on a too-short runway, eh?

Identify and fix the little problems early and the big problems tend never to occur.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Aerodynamic breaking IS a thing, and it IS effected by pulling UP after landing. It really, really works, even WITH the boards deployed. Still, if you get THAT, you're probably not the kind of dude who is going to land on a too-short runway, eh?

Follow your Flight Handbook guidance. Both the 320 and 737 manual at my shop reference not to hold the wheel off for long. Even something about aerodynamic braking not really being an effective technique and just lower the nose. I’d have to look up the exact wording.

 

[form810]

Follow your Flight Handbook guidance. Both the 320 and 737 manual at my shop reference not to hold the wheel off for long. Even something about aerodynamic braking not really being an effective technique and just lower the nose. I’d have to look up the exact wording.

For sure. That's correct. I'm just generalizing. And in general, let the tail stop flying while the nose drifts gently to the pavement. Swept wing A/C act differently than do straight wing aircraft. Either way, a landing is just a highly controlled crash... which of course defines the difference between a "landing" and a "crash" in the vernacular... as well as from every practical standpoint that matters to anyone.

 

[EIR]

Aerodynamic breaking IS a thing, and it IS effected by pulling UP (slightly and in a nuanced fashion) after placing the mains on the ground. It really, really works, even WITH (especially WITH) the boards deployed. If you're REALLY good, you can even start to deploy brakes with the nose still in the air! (OK, YOU don't like that. OK.) Still, if you get all THAT, you're probably not the kind of dude who is going to attempt to land on a too-short runway, eh?

Identify and fix the little problems early and the big problems tend never to occur.

Spoilers and auto brakes is enough braking. Aerodynamic braking is not a thing in category class aircraft. The problem is, when the auto brakes and spoilers activate, it’ll create a lot of down force, which can catch newer folks off guard.

 

[form810]

Spoilers and auto brakes is enough braking. Aerodynamic braking is not a thing in category class aircraft. The problem is, when the auto brakes and spoilers activate, it’ll create a lot of down force, which can catch newer folks off guard.

Yup, agree. Still, that does not prevent or preclude an experienced pilot from doing "pilot stuff" to enhance the situation. Except if one flies per a McPilot operations handbook. And if you're restricted to one of those, by all means, adhere to its standards.

 

[EIR]

Yup, agree. Still, that does not prevent or preclude an experienced pilot from doing "pilot stuff".

We agree there. Even with 3000+ hrs on the 75/76 it catches me off guard at times (late/early engagement).

 

[form810]

We agree there. Even with 3000+ hrs on the 75/76 it catches me off guard at times (late/early engagement).

Me too, brother. 12k hrs in, I still have lousy landings much more often than I think I should.

 

[juxtapilot]

Me too, brother. 12k hrs in, I still have lousy landings much more often than I think I should.

Right?! I think I had the hardest landing of my life during my last line check.