Guess they didn't learn the first time.. Delta's new KSEA-PAJN run.
- Thread starter Capt. Chaos
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I work with one guy who flies a C550 for us, but he can't fly anything single engine here, since he only has an ATP MEL and an MEI; nothing single engine on his certificate.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Great movie. Also very clever way of getting to the extraction point.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
For most guys it is when they get their ATP. For a good number of people over the last decade, that has been someplace like Higher Power while getting a 37 type in a sim so they can apply to SWA.
So, there are a lot of former military folks flying at 121 outfits whose only substantial multi time was their 100 or 150 hours in the T-38 as students, and the remainder of their experience is a thousand or two hours in a single-engine fighter.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
The point I think a lot of people misunderstand about the "centerline thrust" multiengine military fighters is that they are on that list for one reason: lack of a published Vmc in the flight manual.
It has nothing to do with how much asymmetric thrust they generate when flown single engine, nor if they actually do have a point in their flight envelope that would be called Vmc if the military so decided to have it written in the Dash 1.
The F-15E most certainly does have a point where the thrust of a single engine in afterburner provides more yaw than the rudders can control...but because it does not have a number in the flight manual that is called "Vmc", it is considered a centerline thrust aircraft.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
As mentioned earlier, most major airlines recognize what type/quality of experience pilots of pointy-nosed military aircraft have acquired over their careers, and acknowledge that often that flight time doesn't fit into the "standard" categories which they desire to see from applicants to be pilots.
As Bumblebee said, though, not all operations see it that way.
Beep
Well-Known Member
I'm sure this isn't all inclusive, but that looks like the military said " meh... They're not transport, or heavy bombers and they have ejection seats so let's not worry about VMC "
Do any of them have a published VMCG?
I'm sure this isn't all inclusive, but that looks like the military said " meh... They're not transport, or heavy bombers and they have ejection seats so let's not worry about VMC "
Do any of them have a published VMCG?
Nope. No VMCA or VMCG on any of the jets I flew.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
To put it in perspective, in my little corner of the USAF fighter and trainer community, the entire "V speed" naming convention isn't even used.
I bet if you ask pretty much any military pilot what even basic, commonly-known civilian aviation speed terminology was, they'd give you a blank stare. Vy....Vx....Vle..., even colloquial terms like "white arc" and "blue arc" are not common to military flying. Yet each and every one of those terms and concepts has a military aviation analog that pilots are well versed in.
There was a thread on JC 5 or 6 years ago in which one of the 121 airline guys was making fun of the fact that some military pilot he was in training with "didn't even know what a V1 cut was!!" I responded that, despite having spent my entire career flying multiengine airplanes, that I'd never heard of a "V1 cut", either.
Of course, we do have technical order/flight manual speeds that correspond to V1 (in the T-38 we call it "Refusal Speed", and in the F-15E we called it "Max Abort Speed"), and we of course frequently train to engine failures on takeoff, with the takeoff continued as a cornerstone of our emergency procedures training. We call it "Engine Fire/Failure on Takeoff -- Takeoff Continued" or some variation of that.
But somehow, a civilian-only pilot thought that because a military pilot wasn't familiar with the terminology, it meant that he was some kind of idiot.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Kind of (slightly) off subject now, but I was trying to remember the three steps for unusual attitude recovery you guys use. I know there was a confirm (with other instrumentation) in there somewhere but I can't remember it. I do remember that when I was teaching those "idiot" military guys unusual attitude recover in the Seminole for their ATP ratings they normally verbalized the recover with those three steps. And then they laughed because pretty much nothing I could do in the PA44 would even come close to an unusual attitude for them in the F16 or F18.
Recognize, Confirm, Recover.
In many USAF heavies, the civilian V1 is known as S1.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That was it. Thanks.
JustinS
Well-Known Member
Cptnchia
Dissatisfied Customer
They were steely eyed, gravelly voiced aviators, who chain smoked unfiltered Camels, drank whiskey from a flask, and hand flew steam gauge 727s. Clearly not the SNAPs of today who cannot taxi to the end of the runway without at least two connected electronic devices.
PositionAndHold
Well-Known Member
And those guys all came from Western. Had to show the RD's how to do it.They were steely eyed, gravelly voiced aviators, who chain smoked unfiltered Camels, drank whiskey from a flask, and hand flew steam gauge 727s. Clearly not the SNAPs of today who cannot taxi to the end of the runway without at least two connected electronic devices.
(I grew up around too many post merger Western guys not to chime in. They would've themselves but they're still drinking whiskey from a flask and chasin tail to care about our little "computer machines". )
ZeroPapaGolf
Well-Known Member
Sounds like old man bullcrap. Everybody knows that glass and magenta lines are what makes airplanes fly.They were steely eyed, gravelly voiced aviators, who chain smoked unfiltered Camels, drank whiskey from a flask, and hand flew steam gauge 727s. Clearly not the SNAPs of today who cannot taxi to the end of the runway without at least two connected electronic devices.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
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