GoJet Airlines

PCL_128 said:
If you choose to bury your head in the sand and pretend that things didn't happen as they did, then be my guest. The rest of us will live in the real world and accept GoJet for what it really is: an alter-ego, pseudo-scab operation that was used to bust the union and harm the TSA pilots. Why you would choose to defend this place is beyond me, but do whatever you'd like. I just hope your poor judgment doesn't cause some newbie lurking on this board to make a decision that will harm his career for the rest of his life.
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Dude, you can't even prove your version of what happened. This isn't about anything but me refusing to accept what's clearly hearsay, rumor and innuendo, with little in the way of facts to support it. Just a lot of appeals to emotion. For every accusation you and others have made, I can see an alternative explanation that makes equal sense. The only difference is that unlike you guys, I have no emotional attachment to my position, and that's the result of people carelessly slinging around emotionally charged words like "scab" (and "pseudo-scab", whatever THAT is).
 
Kristie said:
I think the only way to solve the issue of facts is to probably go into the hot topics forum and find the gojet threads that show the articles.. i'm not sure you'd be able to find them out on the regular net anymore.

there are more than plenty of gojet threads in there... of which this one will probably follow their footsteps.
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...can the argument/debate truly ever be solved, and a victor shown?

This discussion deals with alot opinions on both sides, that believe them to be facts. Opinions are hard things to shake.

That said, I share the same thought process as many in this thread.
 
Alchemy said:
I reiterate, the GoJet pilot group was created to circumvent the collective bargaining process at TSA.
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And yet again, you offer no proof; therefore, this is mere supposition on your part.

Simply restating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.
 
aloft said:
And yet again, you offer no proof; therefore, this is mere supposition on your part.

Simply restating the same thing over and over again doesn't make it true.
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Aloft, some things are obvious. If I've been flying my 172 for 6 hours, my fuel indicators say empty, and that O-320 stops running, it's pretty obvious that I've run out of fuel. I suppose it's possible that my crankshaft randomly cracked in half, but that certainly wouldn't seem to be the likely reason for the engine to stop running.

Give me a good reason for creating the gojet pilot group (other than to circumvent the collective bargaining process at TSA) and I'll glady listen. Do you have one?
 
How would failure to ratify a TA prevent that? I'm talking actually BLOCKING the company from doing it, even if they wanted to--not the company voluntarily holding off to see how things shake out.
 
aloft said:
Dude, you can't even prove your version of what happened.
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I don't need to prove anything to you. I already know what happened. I know members of the TSA MEC, including the Negotiating Committee Chairman that was trying to work on this deal. I know exactly what happened at those sessions. If you choose to believe something that 99% of the rest of the industry knows to be absurd, then again, have at it. Just don't try to convince the newbies that it's a smart move to work at GoJet. You know that it's not.

This isn't about anything but me refusing to accept what's clearly hearsay, rumor and innuendo, with little in the way of facts to support it. Just a lot of appeals to emotion. For every accusation you and others have made, I can see an alternative explanation that makes equal sense. The only difference is that unlike you guys, I have no emotional attachment to my position, and that's the result of people carelessly slinging around emotionally charged words like "scab" (and "pseudo-scab", whatever THAT is).
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Look, let's keep this simple. There is a perception (whether you want to believe it's accurate or not) in this industry that GoJet is a pseudo-scab operation. Because of that, it's hard for GoJet pilots to move on to career carriers, and it's extremely difficult for them to even get to work or go home on a jumpseat. And think of this: former GoJet pilots have been purposefully failed out of training by checkairmen because of their GoJet background. Is it something that any ALPA rep will officially say that he's made happen? Of course not. But it's happened. Many times. So, with all of this in mind, do you think it's a good idea to encourage people to work for this operation? Do you think it's a smart career move? Think of the possible repercussions for someone that you convince to go there. Do you want to be responsible for destroying their career?
 
They can't fly the 800's without pay rates the same thing as TSA. The company can't set a price if they don't know the cost.
 
aloft said:
Dude, I've given it. Twice. Learn to read.
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Ha, are you sure I'm the one that needs work on reading comprehension? How many times to I need to post this FACTUAL EVIDENCE that blows your mythical reason out of the water?


Factual evidence:

Chautaqua operates ERJ's for AA as well, yet their pilots are on the same seniority list as pilots that fly hundreds of 70+ seat jets for United, USAirways, Frontier, and Delta. How is this possible? Republic apparantly did not find it necessary to circumvent the collective bargaining process with their pilots.
 
Gonzo said:
They can't fly the 800's without pay rates the same thing as TSA. The company can't set a price if they don't know the cost.
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To be accurate, we do have a payrate. It's just 13% higher than the payrate for the -700s. Management won't act on bigger airplanes until they know what the cost will be in the new agreement.
 
aloft said:
Is the Airtran pilot groups' refusal to ratify a TA preventing the company from assuming additional business?
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Well, PNCL got new Delta flying, they yet don't have 900 pay rates but those planes are a flyin' (still waiting on the arbiter).

But, PNCL management didn't create an alter ego company to fly those 900's. Those 900's are still on the PNCL pilot seniority bid list

Also, Kell, and others have said that PNCL was up for some UA flying. But they that didn't get according to mngmt, because of the pilots refusal to sign a contract. PNCL has been in negotiations for almost 5 years.

So, lots of deals have been shot down. Most assuredly, more than three.

And after all that, PNCL hasn't started an alter ego unit.
 
PCL_128 said:
Look, let's keep this simple. There is a perception (whether you want to believe it's accurate or not) in this industry that GoJet is a pseudo-scab operation. Because of that, it's hard for GoJet pilots to move on to career carriers, and it's extremely difficult for them to even get to work or go home on a jumpseat. And think of this: former GoJet pilots have been purposefully failed out of training by checkairmen because of their GoJet background. Is it something that any ALPA rep will officially say that he's made happen? Of course not. But it's happened. Many times. So, with all of this in mind, do you think it's a good idea to encourage people to work for this operation? Do you think it's a smart career move? Think of the possible repercussions for someone that you convince to go there. Do you want to be responsible for destroying their career?
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If even a fraction of that is true, screw ALPA. What a bunch of unprofessional, devoid-of-integrity B.S.

And if there is the slightest possibility that the perceptions of GoJet are false, and yet you allow them to perpetuate, you've done far more to harm the profession than any GoJet pilot has.
 
aloft said:
If even a fraction of that is true, screw ALPA. What a bunch of unprofessional, devoid-of-integrity B.S.

And if there is the slightest possibility that the perceptions of GoJet are false, and yet you allow them to perpetuate, you've done far more to harm the profession than any GoJet pilot has.
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:rolleyes:



Kevin
 
aloft said:
If even a fraction of that is true, screw ALPA. What a bunch of unprofessional, devoid-of-integrity B.S.
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How so?

And if there is the slightest possibility that the perceptions of GoJet are false, and yet you allow them to perpetuate, you've done far more to harm the profession than any GoJet pilot has.
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Perception is reality. Encouraging someone to make a career decision that you know is viewed as scab-like to many pilots is bad advice. Doug built this website to educate future professional pilots so they can make smart career decisions and advance in their careers. Going to GoJet is a career killer. Period.
 
Aloft, I've never met you but you are wiping away six thousand posts worth of credibility here trying to dig yourself out of a hole that was dug with wrong information. Stop now before it's too late.
 
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