Going to get my Dispatcher Certificate at Sheffield

[emorris]

As a former classroom instructor for an airline, you do not want to see anyone fail but it's different at Sheffield. We have (sic) 16 people in our class to start the 5 weeks class and only 8 people passed.

You are implying that 8 failed that class and that we wanted that. This is not only false, but defamatory. You neglected to mention the myriad reasons for the “implied failure” of half your class. They are listed below.

Of the 8 so-called failures according to Mr. Weber’s implications:
1. Airline called him back to work.
2. Slept during class and surfed web during class, inattentive – may have attended class because his dispatcher dad wanted him to.
3. One student left due to a family emergency.
4. Student from Ghana who came close to passing, returned to next class and blew it all away (passed easily) – company thrilled he was allowed to return at huge discount – now understands everything and in line for a promising future. Extremely proud of this young man!
5. Another failed, but was extremely motivated and did not blame others, a class act; will return next class, likely will pass easily and get hired, BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE I SUPPORT!
6. Another failed because he admittedly studied nothing beforehand and very little during the first 3 weeks (60%) of the class – you see I’ll mail materials to help people get ahead up to 3 months early, if a future student feels the need to look over materials early. He left an entire printed notebook unopened for 3 months on a shelf in the ops office, according to those working with him at his airline, then used the same study technique while here.
7. A VA student had severe back pain and resigned.
8. That leaves one who failed for a variety of reasons. It happens.

Don’t misunderstand – Sheffield’s course pass rate has ranged from ~50 (rare) to 100% (rare), most classes leaning towards 70-80%. More importantly, is the fact that for the students who ARE motivated, who seek help after class (Mr. Weber did not), follow directions, and don’t continuously use multiple excuses (as stated in different parts of this forum) for their own failure, they tend to pass the FAA practical exam (our pass rate annually ranges from 92% to 100%). Furthermore, our graduates go on to do quite well. Those who pass and get FAA certified at Sheffield School (Mr. Weber did not), go on to get jobs and tend to excel. I don’t read about their “poor-me-can’t-find-a-job” complaints online. I doubt Sheffield grads contact other schools for retraining and job help, but gee, for some reason, I get that request 1-2 times per month from those who chose a different "school." Also, if we wanted you to fail, why are we approaching 65 continuous years in airline dispatcher training - no name changes, no buyouts, so illegal international campus shutdowns, no problems...just quality. Get your facts straight before you EVER take me on.

(more to come…and it won't be this friendly.)

Eric Morris-President-Sheffield School of Aeronautics (est. 1948)

 

[LawDXer]

I am new to the site but have been viewing them for the last 9 months.

I first off want to say I am not taking sides of Mr. Weber nor of Mr. Morris but I want to give you my take from the outside looking in.

I haven't been in the dispatch world for a long time, about 3 years in fact and did not attend Sheffield but I have heard things about the school more positive than negative. I don't want to get into a shouting contest with Mr. Morris but I have hear things about him personally both great and bad...however, that is expected with any school or instructor/professor if it was College or a school like Sheffield or AGS. But people have their right to take what commentary is said, regardless of truth or fiction. I know for me personally I have to see it to believe and then make an assumption from there but that is hard to do when picking a dispatch school.

I completely understand where Mr. Morris is coming from and why he would get offended but there is a more of a tactful way of approaching than the way he did - I don't think anything should of been responded to by Mr. Morris since I feel the comment by Mr Weber didn't warrant a response because of the support by other former students. From my point of view - It just seem to quantify Mr. Weber's earlier response about people failing, regardless of the circumstance....they all didn't make it thru the course.

Now from what I see about Mr. Weber...He openly admitted to not passing the practical as Mr. Morris pointed out but he also stated circumstance that were happening to him personally and that would cause the "right" mindset to go away during the practical but right there is openly honest and has nothing to hide. Overall, I mostly feel that maybe his comments have some truth to it - maybe 25-35% since he was open about not passing and Mr. Morris describing the other 8 not passing. It appears that Mr. Weber made those comments because of the frustration with not passing the practical (I know I would be if I was in the same predicament) and took it out on the school, which is human nature. This was his livelihood and did not accomplish what he wanted while at the school - I am sure deep down inside he has nothing against the school and was grateful for everything he learned while at the school and doesn't appear he has said anything else about the school for a few months.

I suggest for both Mr. Morris and Mr. Weber to get over it and let it go and move on, is it really worth it?

 

[MikeD]

Gents, keep it civil here please. I'd rather that the Dispatch forum doesn't become the "south central L.A." that some other forum parts are. And I'd really hate to have to increase patrols into this neighborhood. Thanks.

 

[LawDXer]

You are implying that 8 failed that class and that we wanted that. This is not only false, but defamatory. You neglected to mention the myriad reasons for the “implied failure” of half your class. They are listed below.

Of the 8 so-called failures according to Mr. Weber’s implications:
1. Airline called him back to work.
2. Slept during class and surfed web during class, inattentive – may have attended class because his dispatcher dad wanted him to.
3. One student left due to a family emergency.
4. Student from Ghana who came close to passing, returned to next class and blew it all away (passed easily) – company thrilled he was allowed to return at huge discount – now understands everything and in line for a promising future. Extremely proud of this young man!
5. Another failed, but was extremely motivated and did not blame others, a class act; will return next class, likely will pass easily and get hired, BECAUSE THESE PEOPLE I SUPPORT!
6. Another failed because he admittedly studied nothing beforehand and very little during the first 3 weeks (60%) of the class – you see I’ll mail materials to help people get ahead up to 3 months early, if a future student feels the need to look over materials early. He left an entire printed notebook unopened for 3 months on a shelf in the ops office, according to those working with him at his airline, then used the same study technique while here.
7. A VA student had severe back pain and resigned.
8. That leaves one who failed for a variety of reasons. It happens.

Don’t misunderstand – Sheffield’s course pass rate has ranged from ~50 (rare) to 100% (rare), most classes leaning towards 70-80%. More importantly, is the fact that for the students who ARE motivated, who seek help after class (Mr. Weber did not), follow directions, and don’t continuously use multiple excuses (as stated in different parts of this forum) for their own failure, they tend to pass the FAA practical exam (our pass rate annually ranges from 92% to 100%). Furthermore, our graduates go on to do quite well. Those who pass and get FAA certified at Sheffield School (Mr. Weber did not), go on to get jobs and tend to excel. I don’t read about their “poor-me-can’t-find-a-job” complaints online. I doubt Sheffield grads contact other schools for retraining and job help, but gee, for some reason, I get that request 1-2 times per month from those who chose a different "school." Also, if we wanted you to fail, why are we approaching 65 continuous years in airline dispatcher training - no name changes, no buyouts, so illegal international campus shutdowns, no problems...just quality. Get your facts straight before you EVER take me on.

(more to come…and it won't be this friendly.)

Eric Morris-President-Sheffield School of Aeronautics (est. 1948)

Doesn't this go against the school as "failing" regardless of the circumstance? I know it went against me when I was a DI when people didn't make it to graduation for boot camp.

<edited to remove antagonistic provocation. Knock it off.>

 

[Hondo Calrissian]

Doesn't this go against the school as "failing" regardless of the circumstance? I know it went against me when I was a DI when people didn't make it to graduation for boot camp.

<edited>

Hey Pal, give it a rest!!

1) I do not have anything against Mr. Morris and I have sent him a personal apology and hope he accepts!
2) Sheffield is a good school - I do not regret going their!
3) Whatever beef Mr. Morris still has against me is all on him - I do not hold anything against him and hope he can be professional towards me.
4) I appreciate your support but I can stand my ground - there is a difference between being professional (which I am) and being a complete tool.

 

[womanpilot73]

Hey Pal, give it a rest!!

1) I do not have anything against Mr. Morris and I have sent him a personal apology and hope he accepts!
2) Sheffield is a good school - I do not regret going their!
3) Whatever beef Mr. Morris still has against me is all on him - I do not hold anything against him and hope he can be professional towards me.
4) I appreciate your support but I can stand my ground - there is a difference between being professional (which I am) and being a complete tool.

Yay Todd! ;-)

 

[maxshuty]

Back on topic, kind of...

I've got a question with regards to those who fail. Are these people out all the money they spent and that's it? Or is there a way for them to "pass" with another chance somehow - if so how much extra are these folks paying? Is there a time limit in between anything they must wait after they fail?
Just wondering how it works in the world of dispatch. I know for ATC if you fail the AT-SAT test with a score of 85 or lower then its extremely hard to get hired and you can't retake it for 3 years. How does this process work with dispatch?

After reading some of these posts it seems like the dispatch is quite challenging as was my CTI degree. Is it similar in difficulty? I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say I should have a bit of leverage over others that have no aviation background?

Sorry if this has been covered before

 

[Hondo Calrissian]

I am going to answer this in two parts as far as the schooling and the practical.

1) I cannot answer for other schools but from what I got and heard from other students at Sheffield, if you fail the course, I believe you are welcome to come back to another class and try again for a reduced rate (Eric, correct me if I am wrong). Sheffield is not a diploma mill - it is a lot of hard work, time and dedication to passing the course. I am a graduate of Sheffield although I did not pass my practical but I did pass the 2nd time which leads me to part two.

2) Per the regulations under CFR 65.19 - if you fail a written, oral or practical within 30 days of failing, you must get an instructor sign off to retake it given he/she gave you instruction of area failed. Anything outside 30 days from the fail date, then no sign off is required.

A question for you - is the AT-SAT written or oral? I am confused why you would have to wait 3 years to retake it - I thought this also would fall under 65.19 or 65 subpart B.

 

[maxshuty]

Thanks. It makes me a bit hesitant thinking i could spend ~$5000 and end up still having to pay more.

The AT-SAT is valid for 3 years, so if you receive a passing score you cannot retake it until it expires. I got a 93 if I remember right so I'm fine. But if someone scored a 85 then they "passed" but they are only considered qualified instead of well qualified. The difference between the two is huge if you want to get a job...

 

[E-ADX]

I went to IFOD last year, had no issues, other than I got sick the first week fell behind and had to play ketchup. They help when I need help, that's not to say they held my hand but they kept me going through the course sick and all.

There are test done every day off the material from the days before. These help because you can see what chapter from the green book you need to focus on.

I past the written on first try, though I was so nervous that I actually though I had failed. If you fail the written the test they work with you on that as well to help you. I think it cost 125 extra if you have to retake the exam. Plus you have to wait 24 hours before they let go at it again, you will need that time to study. Once again they do not hold your hand it all requires work but anything worth doing is going to hard.

The oral too I past on the first round

They prepared me for ever point. All I had to do was listen learn and study, study, study, study, study, study, wait one more, study.

That being said you get out of what you put in. If you follow there instructions, blindly sometimes (wait for it there be reason you see). Commit ever free moment in that 5 week period. You be fine.

They will also help you out in setting up hotel; lodging. If you do this and go there I recommend the comfort inn suits, great staff made me feel like I was at home.

Recommended study material

Buy the ASA Prep-ware software program. It's the Green Book questions only on the computer. Cool part is when you go through them it will allow you save your missed answers that way you only have to go over the ones you missed
If you not Aviation savoy you might want to think about getting the FAA Pilots handbook of there web site it's free and gives allot of basic info, will not help you pass the ADX but it will explain somethings a little clearer.
They also have list of optional study material on there website

 

[womanpilot73]

Thanks. It makes me a bit hesitant thinking i could spend ~$5000 and end up still having to pay more.

The AT-SAT is valid for 3 years, so if you receive a passing score you cannot retake it until it expires. I got a 93 if I remember right so I'm fine. But if someone scored a 85 then they "passed" but they are only considered qualified instead of well qualified. The difference between the two is huge if you want to get a job...

At Jeppesen if you fail, you can return anytime to retake the class. It does not cost more money. A fellow classmate who failed his O&P from my class (last May) is currently retaking the whole course. It's not necessary to retake the whole thing if you fail, but he had no background in aviation and really struggled.

Also, if you've been away from DX for awhile or never used your license, you could also go back for a refresher. The only thing you have to pay out of your pocket as a retake is the written, and the O&P. And of course, lodging.

 

[jose1337]

At Jeppesen if you fail, you can return anytime to retake the class. It does not cost more money. A fellow classmate who failed his O&P from my class (last May) is currently retaking the whole course. It's not necessary to retake the whole thing if you fail, but he had no background in aviation and really struggled.

Also, if you've been away from DX for awhile or never used your license, you could also go back for a refresher. The only thing you have to pay out of your pocket as a retake is the written, and the O&P. And of course, lodging.

Same deal at IFOD, we had two guys doing refresher training and one of them came from Nigeria