German Wings A320 crashed

Derg said:
The manufacturer doesn't set the code.

It's not hard coded and changes.

You can electronically refuse entry. Or allow entry.
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I would certainly hope the carrier could set the code. And I understood the system wrong. I figured you could get in, even if it was locked from the inside, just for instances like this.
 
Pilot Fighter said:
I'm not sure how much this would really increase safety. Maybe, in the rare case that the presence of a another human would prevent a rather passive nutcase from acting. In the case of a determined killer, a punch to the face of a unsuspecting FA would pretty much incapacitate that FA for awhile.
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He didn't seem like a fighter, more of a coward who waited to be alone up front. If anything, the FA could have opened the door. Either way, I'd rather there be a physical fight to win back control, versus a situation like this where there's zero hope.

Derg said:
Personally, psychological screening as part of the medical recertification process and de-stigmatizing psychological health would help.
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De-stigmatizing anything related with health in our profession would help. The fear that some random doctor can instantly ruin your life/career is enough to keep the mouths of many professional pilots shut. If someone checks "yes" in a box on a medical application, it shouldn't be done with fear that their last paycheck will soon be in the mail.
 
mshunter said:
I would certainly hope the carrier could set the code. And I understood the system wrong. I figured you could get in, even if it was locked from the inside, just for instances like this.
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What made you think that? I'm just curious where that information came from because you said it with such confidence.
 
Mark815 said:
De-stigmatizing anything related with health in our profession would help. The fear that some random doctor can instantly ruin your life/career is enough to keep the mouths of many professional pilots shut. If someone checks "yes" in a box on a medical application, it shouldn't be done with fear that their last paycheck will soon be in the mail.
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Don't know if it has been mentioned already but wait for the ensuing backlash from our law makers as they try to legislate us out of this. The problem is that there are a host of professions out there that one could misuse their position to perpetrate evil. Flying is just one. Are they going to recommend psychology testing for school bus drivers.You know a school bus driver could drive a school bus over a bridge and take the kids with him/her. It is a slippery slope.
 
GypsyPilot said:
We have no idea how many hijacking attempts were avoided by having a locked door.
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As far as I'm aware there have been no reports of anyone trying to get through that door for ill purposes. It'd be all over the media with cell phone video and everything.
 
It's a bit ironic that the bulletproof and impenetrable door that so much effort went into designing to protect us, has now effectively kept the potential solution to this sad tragedy standing helplessly outside. Just when you think you have thought of everything....... Sad.

I had a discussion over lunch today with a co-worker and we wondered if aircraft systems might ever be developed where you had TPI (Two Person Integrity) logic activated when one pilot was off the flight deck. If one pilot left, the system would be unable to change altitudes or make MAJOR changes until the second pilot returned - sort of like the USAF two key missile launch logic. But following that logic through, there are situations that could develop or system faults that might create more problems than it solved.

I think it ultimately comes down to individuals and the demons that take residence in their heads. And for that, there may never be answers.
 
z987k said:
As far as I'm aware there have been no reports of anyone trying to get through that door for ill purposes. It'd be all over the media with cell phone video and everything.
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GypsyPilot said:
We have no idea how many hijacking attempts were avoided by having a locked door.
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I dunno how much this one counts, but its close.

I think the door has done its job maybe once or twice, but has caused problems a little more than once or twice. And seeing how airlines like Air Canada, Air Transat, and Norwegian have already changed their policies, I wonder how much this will act as a deterrent.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I might get me some kick back, but here goes. I work in the State Mental Health Hospital system. And while all people regardless of color or creed are susceptible to mental illness, the numbers of whites leads by a large percentage. On the civil side of the hospital, we have long-term civil commitment and also short term in-patient treatment. Most if not all of the cases of depression, drugs, suicide and anxiety disorders related admissions are again majority white.

I see admissions for people who are depressed/emotional/suicidal related issues because they're fat, or someone called them a name and they felt bad. The boy or girl that they liked doesn't like them. They were teased, bullied, or on drugs now as a coping skill. I could go on, with many other examples. I won't trivialize their right to feel that way, as its their right to feel the way that they do. But I just don't see too many minorities being admitted for 7-10 day stays for observation or med stabilization for those same reasons. I can't say with fact, but based upon what I see daily white people *might* not be able to handle stress as well as minorities. Maybe it's because whites are the majority, and are used to having things handed to them easier, because of their skin color. And minorities are used to being discriminated against, and having to work harder for things white people might attain easier, or take for granted.
Maybe that makes them tougher in situations (shrugs shoulders). Again, not sure. Or maybe they (minorities) just accept their lower rung on the ladder (learned behavior) and are used to it and give up.

I thought that the issue might be socio-economic. Working for the state most of our in-patient admissions are poor individuals on welfare. But my friend works at a private care (read $$$ psychiatric facility for rich (white) people). And he says that what I see is even worse at his place. Lot's of entitlement related admissions. Mommy and daddy don't love me, so I'll show you. I'll force you to see me and acknowledge me. Via negative/dangerous behavior patterns for attention. AKA poor little rich girl/boy syndrome.

I still remember a conversation I once had with this Latino kid at my last job. He said and I quote: "This white m-f over here soft, he here cause the bitch he like ain't like him. So he tried to kill himself. F-k what is wrong with white people? Man I ain't gonna hurt myself over a f-king bitch. I just go and f-k another bitch, or her friends. Don't f-king whine about it and kill yourself over a bitch.

A black kid also asked me. "Why do white m-f's shoot up schools cause they got picked on or got their feelings hurt. If you a p**sy, if you let that s**t happen, then you deserve it. If you a man you gonna handle yo s**t outside or after school. You ain't gonna let no m-f disrespect you. Not shoot up the whole m-fing school. School shootings are a white thing, n***ga's don't be doing that s**t.

A white kid chimed in and said at least I don't have to rob and kill m-fers for Jordans. My parents will just buy them for me. So... yeah perspective.

Dunno. Just observations based on admissions/statistics that I see daily at work. Are they right, do they speak for a whole race? Or are these cases of individuals? I dunno. Do I believe it? I don't know. But I do see it A LOT!
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Wow! That is interesting.
 
CaptBill said:
It's a bit ironic that the bulletproof and impenetrable door that so much effort went into designing to protect us, has now effectively kept the potential solution to this sad tragedy standing helplessly outside. Just when you think you have thought of everything....... Sad.

I had a discussion over lunch today with a co-worker and we wondered if aircraft systems might ever be developed where you had TPI (Two Person Integrity) logic activated when one pilot was off the flight deck. If one pilot left, the system would be unable to change altitudes or make MAJOR changes until the second pilot returned - sort of like the USAF two key missile launch logic. But following that logic through, there are situations that could develop or system faults that might create more problems than it solved.

I think it ultimately comes down to individuals and the demons that take residence in their heads. And for that, there may never be answers.
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It is an interesting conundrum, but really you can't protect against everything. And there are always holes or exceptions to security policies. The industry just has to do it's best. Fortunately events like this are so exceedingly rare I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I don't really know what or if anything could have been different.

Sometimes poop just happens.
 
Bob Ridpath said:
Do you know a lot of white people?

Most of us, in my experience, are wound tighter than drums and are neurotic as hell. That's why someone invented Gin.

Not surprised at all, personally, although your mileage may vary.
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<— is an angry gin drunk.

Anything else, I'm your best friend, but if I start drinking gin. Ungh.
 
ppragman said:
Gin is nasty... I don't get the G&T craze from a few years back. Gin Hangover = "Oh my GAWD, why do I taste pine and feel like there's an angry elephant playing a broken sousaphone in my head?!"
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In you're head? For me its my butt-pipes. Gin, a good way to clean out the old digestive system.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I might get me some kick back, but here goes. I work in the State Mental Health Hospital system. And while all people regardless of color or creed are susceptible to mental illness, the numbers of whites leads by a large percentage. On the civil side of the hospital, we have long-term civil commitment and also short term in-patient treatment. Most if not all of the cases of depression, drugs, suicide and anxiety disorders related admissions are again majority white.

I see admissions for people who are depressed/emotional/suicidal related issues because they're fat, or someone called them a name and they felt bad. The boy or girl that they liked doesn't like them. They were teased, bullied, or on drugs now as a coping skill. I could go on, with many other examples. I won't trivialize their right to feel that way, as its their right to feel the way that they do. But I just don't see too many minorities being admitted for 7-10 day stays for observation or med stabilization for those same reasons. I can't say with fact, but based upon what I see daily white people *might* not be able to handle stress as well as minorities. Maybe it's because whites are the majority, and are used to having things handed to them easier, because of their skin color. And minorities are used to being discriminated against, and having to work harder for things white people might attain easier, or take for granted.
Maybe that makes them tougher in situations (shrugs shoulders). Again, not sure. Or maybe they (minorities) just accept their lower rung on the ladder (learned behavior) and are used to it and give up.

I thought that the issue might be socio-economic. Working for the state most of our in-patient admissions are poor individuals on welfare. But my friend works at a private care (read $$$ psychiatric facility for rich (white) people). And he says that what I see is even worse at his place. Lot's of entitlement related admissions. Mommy and daddy don't love me, so I'll show you. I'll force you to see me and acknowledge me. Via negative/dangerous behavior patterns for attention. AKA poor little rich girl/boy syndrome.

I still remember a conversation I once had with this Latino kid at my last job. He said and I quote: "This white m-f over here soft, he here cause the bitch he like ain't like him. So he tried to kill himself. F-k what is wrong with white people? Man I ain't gonna hurt myself over a f-king bitch. I just go and f-k another bitch, or her friends. Don't f-king whine about it and kill yourself over a bitch.

A black kid also asked me. "Why do white m-f's shoot up schools cause they got picked on or got their feelings hurt. If you a p**sy, if you let that s**t happen, then you deserve it. If you a man you gonna handle yo s**t outside or after school. You ain't gonna let no m-f disrespect you. Not shoot up the whole m-fing school. School shootings are a white thing, n***ga's don't be doing that s**t.

A white kid chimed in and said at least I don't have to rob and kill m-fers for Jordans. My parents will just buy them for me. So... yeah perspective.

Dunno. Just observations based on admissions/statistics that I see daily at work. Are they right, do they speak for a whole race? Or are these cases of individuals? I dunno. Do I believe it? I don't know. But I do see it A LOT!
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Point? This seems a little far fetched to blame this on race.
 
I think the big thing of note here is that this now puts aircrew under suspicion. Think of all the years it took to get KCM, of convincing TSA and everyone that "we're not the enemy -- we're the trusted ones."

This now begins to erase that, valid or not.
 
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