Furlough Estimates

Autothrust Blue said:
I still maintain that one could have at least upset the average U.S. 737 driver with an off-schedule MCAS actuation, especially before everyone was told about it. Maybe not a complete, unrecoverable departure, but surely a little mess and a few cycles of “hey that’s weird hey HEY HEY!”
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You're describing every single time I expect the VNAV to do something...
 
JordanD said:
I hear this a lot, is the 737 VNAV really that bad? I’m pretty continually surprised at how awful managed descent on the bus can be sometimes.
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Maybe my prior Airbus employer didnt have great software, but the 737NG does a far better job with VNAV vs *those* Airbus' managed descent. Again...YMMV
 
JordanD said:
I hear this a lot, is the 737 VNAV really that bad? I’m pretty continually surprised at how awful managed descent on the bus can be sometimes.
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As a 737 pilot who doesn’t have any interesting in fly it and doesn’t openly despise it... the VNAV works just fine.

I’m convinced anyone who thinks the automation on a certain modern airliner is terrible and isn’t just doing the “yuck yuck I’m a crappy pilot” JC shtick to get likes, they just have some sort of fundamental understanding of the system or just complain about the .001% of issues where VNAV does something weird and they blow it way out of proportion for the the likes.
 
Dexter said:
I’m convinced anyone who thinks the automation on a certain modern airliner is terrible and isn’t just doing the “yuck yuck I’m a crappy pilot” JC shtick to get likes, they just have some sort of fundamental understanding of the system or just complain about the .001% of issues where VNAV does something weird and they blow it way out of proportion for the the likes.
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I wish it worked better on the Airbus, but when set up properly and left alone, other than the odd “tick tick tick” and you suddenly not hitting a restriction, it works okay.
 
Dexter said:
As a 737 pilot who doesn’t have any interesting in fly it and doesn’t openly despise it... the VNAV works just fine.

I’m convinced anyone who thinks the automation on a certain modern airliner is terrible and isn’t just doing the “yuck yuck I’m a crappy pilot” JC shtick to get likes, they just have some sort of fundamental understanding of the system or just complain about the .001% of issues where VNAV does something weird and they blow it way out of proportion for the the likes.
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I mean. I am a pretty crappy pilot but I did get VNAV to work great on the Citation X, Falcon 900 and the EMB 175. The 737 is kind of throwing me for a loop. There is a cruise decent page that pops up if you start down early that can but not always, use the ECON speeds or the speed you program. AFAIK you cant program the cruise decent page. Only climb, cruise and decent. So the aircraft will slow to 256 knots, the arbitrary ECON cruse decent value. You know, the one you can't program... I also do put the altimeter value in the forecast page and I also add in a value for anti ice operation too. Usually if possible I almost always start my decent about 10 miles early as this seems to stop the pitch over to the barber pole and subsequent panic pull on the speed brake handle.

But it still does stuff that surprises me, at times.

I was also making a joke :rolleyes:
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I mean. I am a pretty crappy pilot but I did get VNAV to work great on the Citation X, Falcon 900 and the EMB 175. The 737 is kind of throwing me for a loop. There is a cruise decent page that pops up if you start down early that can but not always, use the ECON speeds or the speed you program. AFAIK you cant program the cruise decent page. Only climb, cruise and decent. So the aircraft will slow to 256 knots, the arbitrary ECON cruse decent value. You know, the one you can't program... I also do put the altimeter value in the forecast page and I also add in a value for anti ice operation too. Usually if possible I almost always start my decent about 10 miles early as this seems to stop the pitch over to the barber pole and subsequent panic pull on the speed brake handle.

But it still does stuff that surprises me, at times.

I was also making a joke :rolleyes:
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On PERF INIT page 2 you can adjust de Max/min speeds used by ECON and RTA modes...so even with a cost index like 10 it'll never slow you below say 280 knots in a descent. You can also program max climb and descents speeds for ECON too.
I use it in cruise so it maintains +/- 0.02 the filed mach while in ECON for Hawaii tracks.
 
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Autothrust Blue said:
I wish it worked better on the Airbus, but when set up properly and left alone, other than the odd “tick tick tick” and you suddenly not hitting a restriction, it works okay.
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The idea is to catch it before that happens, if you hear tick tick tick you’re already behind the plane. Descending early helps or just accepting the variance in speed/alt.
 
charlie1017 said:
On PERF INIT page 2 you can adjust de Max/min speeds used by ECON and RTA modes...so even with a cost index like 10 it'll never slow you below say 280 knots in a descent. You can also program max climb and descents speeds for ECON too.
I use it in cruise so it maintains +/- 0.02 the filed mach while in ECON for Hawaii tracks.
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Huh. I was aware of the min/max speed page in the perf menu. But didn’t think about it’s use for that. I’ll try to hack the ECON decent page that way. Thanks.


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BEEF SUPREME said:
I mean. I am a pretty crappy pilot but I did get VNAV to work great on the Citation X, Falcon 900 and the EMB 175. The 737 is kind of throwing me for a loop. There is a cruise decent page that pops up if you start down early that can but not always, use the ECON speeds or the speed you program. AFAIK you cant program the cruise decent page. Only climb, cruise and decent. So the aircraft will slow to 256 knots, the arbitrary ECON cruse decent value. You know, the one you can't program... I also do put the altimeter value in the forecast page and I also add in a value for anti ice operation too. Usually if possible I almost always start my decent about 10 miles early as this seems to stop the pitch over to the barber pole and subsequent panic pull on the speed brake handle.

But it still does stuff that surprises me, at times.

I was also making a joke :rolleyes:
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Does the 737 FMC have a ‘Descend Now’ prompt on VNAV PG3?

On the 777 if you initiate a descent more than 50nm from T/D it will go into Cruise Descent mode. Selecting Descend Now on PG3 will put it into descent mode.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Huh. I was aware of the min/max speed page in the perf menu. But didn’t think about it’s use for that. I’ll try to hack the ECON decent page that way. Thanks.


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For the (annoying I know) tendency of the cruise descent speed to decrease while descending to a new cruise alt, you may need to put a lower limit speed for ECON in the cruise phase. Because what the plane is really doing is slowing to the new ECON speed at the new alt... And for low CI it can slow a lot.
 
Hubbs said:
Does the 737 FMC have a ‘Descend Now’ prompt on VNAV PG3?

On the 777 if you initiate a descent more than 50nm from T/D it will go into Cruise Descent mode. Selecting Descend Now on PG3 will put it into descent mode.
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Its the same logic (re 50nm) for cruise descent using ALT INTERVENTION. And yeah theres a DESCEND now feature too.
 
charlie1017 said:
On PERF INIT page 2 you can adjust de Max/min speeds used by ECON and RTA modes...so even with a cost index like 10 it'll never slow you below say 280 knots in a descent. You can also program max climb and descents speeds for ECON too.
I use it in cruise so it maintains +/- 0.02 the filed mach while in ECON for Hawaii tracks.
Click to expand...
BEEF SUPREME said:
Huh. I was aware of the min/max speed page in the perf menu. But didn’t think about it’s use for that. I’ll try to hack the ECON decent page that way. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Sounds like something to run by the CA before changing default values?
 
737 VNAV works fine. You just have to know what it’s looking for, when it looks like it’s doing nothing at the moment.

And yea. You can use altitude intervention to reset the cruise altitude in the box, in lieu of going into the cruise page and doing it. Altitude and Speed Intervention are your friends.
 
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