Furlough Estimates

BEEF SUPREME said:
The fact that like you, he pathologically hounds me about what happened when I was thrown into the worst, most bigoted pilot group I’ve ever been around.

I had an extremely bad experience at one 135 outfit and since then I’ve had nothing but good experiences. Flown with hundreds of pilots and made nothing but good friends. Yet somehow for you and Mikey and maybe one or two others I’m forever burning bridges.

It’s a puzzle quite easily solved by remembering birds of a feather and all. If you listen to socially awkward, stupid followers you most likely are one yourself.

I mean I sometimes catch myself wondering who you’re listening to from XO. Maybe they were one of the dudes going on long racist tirades about the “blacks” as we traveled from TEB to VNY. I didn’t like it but it was a nice break from an anti Semitic rant. Maybe you’re the “black friend” they so often referenced?


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The only reason I spoke up about what people have said about you at your past place of employment is because those same personality traits that have made you infamous there are the same ones you exhibit here. You have been attempting to fat shame for a good while now. You have been lobbing insults his way and I find it a bit ridiculous. How does that make you any different than the people you've been talking about? You hold grudges and you're are extremely negative all of the time just as folks at your former employer have said about you.

I have close friends who is black and women friends that flew for that same operator who have had no negative things to say about their experience on the flight deck. You may have had a different experience, but none of them have had any the issues that you bring up.
 
Dphoenix said:
When you've got 3 more days with a weird captain, you also have to pick your battles. You'll see. 121 flying is different from what you're used to. I certainly change the subject quickly. And you've got avenues in 121... pro stands for one. Yes if somebody is being directly racist or homophobic you speak up, but a lot of times it's just some really bad hot take on something and more dogwhistley than direct. At some point you just get out a book..(of company approved reading material of course) and say hey man I'm gonna read for awhile. The weird uncomfortable CRM dynamics are... a whole thing.

I had an FO start going on a rant at 14,000 feet about San Francisco and Kalifornia as he was #triggered by beginning the STAR into there. I just said "yeah, I think this is more than a 4,000 foot conversation. Let's get an approach checklist..."
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I'm not talking about having a Real Housewives (of whatever city) type reunion argument or fight or battle to the death in the cockpit. I'm simply saying just speaking up and more or less saying, "not today Satan" and stating this conversation is inapropriate, offensive or both. Its not going to continue. And warning that if it does continues, it sounds like a conversation to be had with Pro stands. Done. That sh-t is immediately shut down. But to just sit back and let it happen, without speaking up, or changing the subject. Or just being glad that this time he's saying stuff about the blacks, or the gays for a change, and not us Jews. F-k that sh-t, you're complicit.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I'm not talking about having a Real Housewives (of whatever city) type reunion argument or fight or battle to the death in the cockpit. I'm simply saying just speaking up and more or less saying, "not today Satan" and stating this conversation is inapropriate, offensive or both. Its not going to continue. And warning that if it does continues, it sounds like a conversation to be had with Pro stands. Done. That sh-t is immediately shut down. But to just sit back and let it happen, without speaking up, or changing the subject. Or just being glad that this time he's saying stuff about the blacks, or the gays for a change, and not us Jews. F-k that sh-t, you're complicit.
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You’ll be “complicit,” too, then. You’ll see. The CRM game isn’t as easy as you think it is. Keeping the peace in a six foot cubed tiny room at 36,000 ft for days on end when you’re not the person in charge, and the guy who is is a little...different is definitely an art form.
 
SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
You’ll be “complicit,” too, then. You’ll see. The CRM game isn’t as easy as you think it is. Keeping the peace in a six foot cubed tiny room at 36,000 ft for days on end when you’re not the person in charge, and the guy who is is a little...different is definitely an art form.
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I fail to see how simply saying: "Naw Tom, really? Is this what we're doin' now? Cut that sh-t out." Is so horrible to CRM.
 
arkflyr said:
From the earnings call the other day it sounds like they are feeling pretty good about the take rate of the pilot group.

This is from the VP of corporate services.


“The 4,400 voluntary separations represent 7% or so of the workforce -- of the active workforce, and the nearly 17,000 total between the two programs represent about 27% of the active workforce. And of the 12,500 request for an extended leave, over 60% are for a year longer. So the way I think about that, the combination of voluntary separation and leaves of a year or longer represent 20% of the active workforce was just a huge amount of flexibility. While the response from every group was really good, I do want to call out our pilots.

Because of the relative financial value, it was key to have them participate, and our pilots really came through, with over 2,300 electing one of the two programs, and that represents about 25% of all active pilots. And I'm just really proud of them, and I'm really proud of all of our employees. We will be granting all requests for separation, and the vast majority of those will be separated before September 30. Extended leave requests aren't perfectly balanced across the company as you would expect and the operation, so there's a little bit of work to do there.”

So for now it sounds like they are pretty happy with how things shook out. Plus GK has hinted that the next lever to pull will be some kind of pay/benefit concession talk with the unions before they pull the furlough trigger. So that will be the master warning light for preparing for the furlough.

I can tell you that I got my 2 year ExTO and will be enjoying the long hair unshaven hippie life starting in September.
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Enjoy those two years off!! Hopefully you'll come back a lot more senior to a more normal world.


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SlumTodd_Millionaire said:
You’ll be “complicit,” too, then. You’ll see. The CRM game isn’t as easy as you think it is. Keeping the peace in a six foot cubed tiny room at 36,000 ft for days on end when you’re not the person in charge, and the guy who is is a little...different is definitely an art form.
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Yup. On the ground it’s easy to tell them to shove it up their ass. But when you’re flying, the ONLY priority is to get where you’re going safely. The guys who simultaneously start into a political rant tend to be the more emotionally charged type, so trying to “fix it” before you get where you’re going might not have the outcome you’re looking for. Especially on a heavy crew where you’re very much outnumbered.
 
arkflyr said:
Thanks! Looking at the numbers I moved up one percent system wide with the VSP removal and I’m halfway up the involuntary recall list if things start to improve quickly.
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A big THANK YOU for taking the time off. I’ve talked to a number of guys taking time off because they were part of the 2001 or 2008 new hire class and wanted to help the pilot group that helped them when they were junior. As a junior FO, living in Southern California, with a young family, I truly appreciate it. I tried to get another flying job so I could take the ExTO and still pay bills but nothing worked out.
 
sp238882 said:
PS sorry to hear that was your experience, that’s terrible to have to endure man. Sounds like hell
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Thanks. It was pretty bad. The fact it happened with multiple captains was bewildering and I didn’t know what to do.

To everyone saying how they wouldn’t have put up with it and l admire your self righteousness I really do. Do keep in mind that this was a merit based upgrade system. You had to get a recommendation letter from each captain, you had to get 5 letters to move from C, B, A FO then you were a reserve captain. You didn’t kiss ass or tell someone about making America great again, you were labeled as “difficult.”

I did speak up and tell captains they were being inappropriate. How do you think things got so bad? I also spoke with HR. It made things worse. Would I do things differently now. Yeah of course.

6 months in I asked my friend who I went through indoc with who happened to be black if he thought there was an anti Semitism problem at XOJET. I grew up middle class in a very white, liberal community and a lot of my friends were Jewish. This has never been an issue before. Honestly it hasn’t been since. I had no idea how to deal with it.

My friends response was insanely spot on: “Dave, I was thinking about you. At least I look black.” Meaning no one said openly bigoted things to his face but he knew I looked like a surfer dude from California. People said bigoted things to my face all the time.

I’ll make a deal with JC. Take into consideration how things have gone at two separate 121 operators over multiple years and hundreds of interactions with other pilots since XOJET. Leave the you burn bridges rhetoric for the bigots and I’ll stop fat shaming and called people socially retarded. Sounds good?


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lr31apilot said:
A big THANK YOU for taking the time off. I’ve talked to a number of guys taking time off because they were part of the 2001 or 2008 new hire class and wanted to help the pilot group that helped them when they were junior. As a junior FO, living in Southern California, with a young family, I truly appreciate it. I tried to get another flying job so I could take the ExTO and still pay bills but nothing worked out.
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No problem, I was originally going to only take six months but then my mother-in-law passed away unexpectedly coupled with some other things changed the plan to two years. I’m moving out of a crew base to be closer to her family so two years of no commuting will be hopefully about right and service will return to normal up there when I come back to work.

Mostly I’m just glad to have a chance at life like this, I’ve been working since I was 15 and a mid life sabbatical will be really nice. In the meantime it is going to allow me to get a bunch of stuff done that I’ve been wanting to do for a while.
 
It’s actually pretty crazy these Exto options. I’m happy and honestly a little jealous of them and you guys! I hope you all truly get a chance to enjoy it- its nice to hear some good news for a change lately.
 
Hi everyone. AA pilot here that's part of the 2500 that received a WARN notice. APA is currently engaged with management (allegedly) to find ways to mitigate or avoid furloughs. I was wondering how things are going at United and Delta? Any word on if Furloughs will be avoided or reduced over there?
 
arkflyr said:
Mostly I’m just glad to have a chance at life like this, I’ve been working since I was 15 and a mid life sabbatical will be really nice. In the meantime it is going to allow me to get a bunch of stuff done that I’ve been wanting to do for a while.
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It’ll be nice to have a choice in the matter. We’ll see.
 
LoFi said:
Hi everyone. AA pilot here that's part of the 2500 that received a WARN notice. APA is currently engaged with management (allegedly) to find ways to mitigate or avoid furloughs. I was wondering how things are going at United and Delta? Any word on if Furloughs will be avoided or reduced over there?
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Not to derail your question, but when did you receive your notice? I'm in the 2500 and I have not received any notice yet.
 
DeltaAlphaNovember said:
Not to derail your question, but when did you receive your notice? I'm in the 2500 and I have not received any notice yet.
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What base are you? I'm in PHL and didn't technically receive one either. From my understanding, only certain states require the physical letter in the mail be sent. California and New York for sure. If you're based somewhere else, then the notice to APA is sufficient.
 
LoFi said:
What base are you? I'm in PHL and didn't technically receive one either. From my understanding, only certain states require the physical letter in the mail be sent. California and New York for sure. If you're based somewhere else, then the notice to APA is sufficient.
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I am currently DFW based. Makes sense to not get one now. Thanks for the reply.
 
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