LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Danke
FEDEX Flt 80 MD-11 Crash
- Thread starter deadstick
- Start date
USAFplt
Well-Known Member
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
I'm not going to speculate at all about the accident since I dont fly the -11, only the -10. In regards to an earlier post about pitch up with spoiler activation I can attest to it in the -10. It isnt as bad as the -11 my buds tell me, but you definitely have to fly the nosewheel down.
In the first month of landings in the -10, I had an autospoiler will not deploy light which happens frequently. My IP warned me of not trying to fly the nose down as usual since I wouldnt be getting the normal pitch up. Of course to my IPs chagrin, I flew the nose wheel down and she slammed down with a few more bounces as we rolled down the runway.
The -10/11 is a great flying machine..but she does have her characteristics
RIP to the crew and families..will be interested to see the results
I'm not going to speculate at all about the accident since I dont fly the -11, only the -10. In regards to an earlier post about pitch up with spoiler activation I can attest to it in the -10. It isnt as bad as the -11 my buds tell me, but you definitely have to fly the nosewheel down.
In the first month of landings in the -10, I had an autospoiler will not deploy light which happens frequently. My IP warned me of not trying to fly the nose down as usual since I wouldnt be getting the normal pitch up. Of course to my IPs chagrin, I flew the nose wheel down and she slammed down with a few more bounces as we rolled down the runway.
The -10/11 is a great flying machine..but she does have her characteristics
RIP to the crew and families..will be interested to see the results
Velocipede
New Member
Here's the real story. I got it from the FedEx safety guy. And the assumption that the guys were just "saving their Xmas presents" is false.
The problem was there is only one evac slide installed. Its on the L1 door. As you can see from the video, the airplane is laying on its right side, elevating the L1 door. What you don't see is the wind blowing from the left. When the slide was originally deployed, it went under the aircraft. When it inflated, it either detached or was destroyed.
As a result, the crew only had one escape option...the cockpit windows. As anyone who has tried this escape venue, it takes some time. So, while the guys were waiting their turn to use the window ropes, they decided to start tossing out the crew bags.
They were not delaying getting out in favor of the crew luggage. They just didn't have access to the ropes and used the time to "evacuate" the luggage. What isn't apparent from the video is the crew/pax are coming out the window and the bags are coming out the L1 door.
I vaguely remember that....and it's thought the slide was detached or became detached and blew away when it was inflated. The other part of the internal stuff was confirming that the crews knew how to deploy the slide (which they all did), but there was something else about the door static trainer for egress training not being able to fully simulate some part of the mechanism on the actual aircraft. I'd have to look that up.
seagull
Well-Known Member
seagull
Well-Known Member
seagull
Well-Known Member
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
When are the reversers popped on landing? I'd have mine out on the RJ just about as soon as I could get the thrust levers over the gate. Do you guys wait on the MD-11 until your nosewheel is on the ground?
When are the reversers popped on landing? I'd have mine out on the RJ just about as soon as I could get the thrust levers over the gate. Do you guys wait on the MD-11 until your nosewheel is on the ground?
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
You pop the reversers before there is a nosewheel on the ground to steer you if only one reverser deploys? Personally I was taught, and agree with the philosophy, that that way of operating is not good for one's career...
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
We've got guys that do that over here too. It's a definite face-palm. And if I'm not mistaken, his aircraft has bucket reversers. At a previous outfit I was taught to NEVER deploy the buckets (XLS and X) until the nosewheel was down and you had forward pressure because the thrust moment could cause the aircraft to become airborne again, but with less than satisfying results.
We've got guys that do that over here too. It's a definite face-palm. And if I'm not mistaken, his aircraft has bucket reversers. At a previous outfit I was taught to NEVER deploy the buckets (XLS and X) until the nosewheel was down and you had forward pressure because the thrust moment could cause the aircraft to become airborne again, but with less than satisfying results.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
Well, I pop nothing anymore, but yes. I dunno how much additional control you're REALLY going to have by having a VERY light nosewheel on the ground, but do what you need to do for your airframe to be safe.
The logic in the system would prevent you from doing anything too stupid. I'm obviously the anti current right now, but I believe you could still use one bucket/reverser if you had the other bucket MELed. Further, the airplane won't let you bring them out until you get weight on wheels (every once in a while you'd get a ding while bringing your nose wheel down because you had the thrust levers behind the gate, but the airplane was not convinced that the airplane was on the ground yet, so you'd get an EICAS message about it and the buckets would not deploy). Further, you can't spool the engines up until you have the nose wheel on the ground.
So like I said, do what you need to do for your aircraft. It's been 6 months since I've been in the cockpit of anything, but I seem to remember most guys flying the aircraft like this.
Well, I pop nothing anymore, but yes. I dunno how much additional control you're REALLY going to have by having a VERY light nosewheel on the ground, but do what you need to do for your airframe to be safe.
The logic in the system would prevent you from doing anything too stupid. I'm obviously the anti current right now, but I believe you could still use one bucket/reverser if you had the other bucket MELed. Further, the airplane won't let you bring them out until you get weight on wheels (every once in a while you'd get a ding while bringing your nose wheel down because you had the thrust levers behind the gate, but the airplane was not convinced that the airplane was on the ground yet, so you'd get an EICAS message about it and the buckets would not deploy). Further, you can't spool the engines up until you have the nose wheel on the ground.
So like I said, do what you need to do for your aircraft. It's been 6 months since I've been in the cockpit of anything, but I seem to remember most guys flying the aircraft like this.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
amorris311
Well-Known Member
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
well i know a few captains that like to slam the saab into reverse for some unknown reason while the nose is still in the air. i on the otherhand think just dropping it into beta is sufficient but will only do it once the nose is on the ground. i think i do that because i saw a flight instructor vmcg while doing a go around that turned into a touch and go. (if that makes sense) there is no reason in most situations to get the thing in reverse at the first second if you land in the first third and are on speed. this is all in the saab i cant speak for any other aircraft.
well i know a few captains that like to slam the saab into reverse for some unknown reason while the nose is still in the air. i on the otherhand think just dropping it into beta is sufficient but will only do it once the nose is on the ground. i think i do that because i saw a flight instructor vmcg while doing a go around that turned into a touch and go. (if that makes sense) there is no reason in most situations to get the thing in reverse at the first second if you land in the first third and are on speed. this is all in the saab i cant speak for any other aircraft.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
Indeed, every aircraft is different.
You've gotta consider that the differences between beta, full reverse, just having clam shell buckets opened, having full reverse with clam shell buckets, and whatever the other style of reverse open, vs. whatever the other style of reverser open plus thrust.
On an airplane like the CRJ, my understanding is that you have a lot more thrust moving forward than in a clam shell style setup. Now I haven't flown a CRJ, but that's my understand. I've been wrong before.
Indeed, every aircraft is different.
You've gotta consider that the differences between beta, full reverse, just having clam shell buckets opened, having full reverse with clam shell buckets, and whatever the other style of reverse open, vs. whatever the other style of reverser open plus thrust.
On an airplane like the CRJ, my understanding is that you have a lot more thrust moving forward than in a clam shell style setup. Now I haven't flown a CRJ, but that's my understand. I've been wrong before.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
As far as I know all cascade type reversers only 'reverse' the bypass air. The core is still producing thrust. The core produces less thrust than it would normally while surrounded by bypass air (disturbance losses etc.), but it still can be a significant amount. However on high bypass engines, the bypass air is more significant than the core air. That's why you will always see buckets (or none) on lower bypass engines.
As far as I know all cascade type reversers only 'reverse' the bypass air. The core is still producing thrust. The core produces less thrust than it would normally while surrounded by bypass air (disturbance losses etc.), but it still can be a significant amount. However on high bypass engines, the bypass air is more significant than the core air. That's why you will always see buckets (or none) on lower bypass engines.
Velocipede
New Member
There are now, perhaps.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Re: FEDEX MD-11 Crash
:buck: My small airplane is definitely different. We have no WOW switch for the nose, so you could create some serious problems. You are not supposed to be able to spool engines up with only one fully deployed, but I have seen otherwise...it's usually a uncommanded stow, but you are still generating thrust on one. It could get ugly.
And I totally agree, each airplane is different.
Yes, sorry to ask that in the present tense. Good to hear the logic from a former "big airplane driver"
:buck: My small airplane is definitely different. We have no WOW switch for the nose, so you could create some serious problems. You are not supposed to be able to spool engines up with only one fully deployed, but I have seen otherwise...it's usually a uncommanded stow, but you are still generating thrust on one. It could get ugly.And I totally agree, each airplane is different.