Failed MMPI at PEPC?

[jdatc]

Good news! There will be more of us joining the "Failed MMPI" Club. I just got the news from my March Chicago PEPC today. Apparently they finally fixed the glitch with the scoring holdup and are processing them again now. I'm surely not crazy so I guess I will just jump through the hoops and plan on a winter trip to OKC instead or my first July-August hope.

Do not pass go, do not collect $200, just add another 90 days on to your wait. Congratulations!

 

[quepsiphiATC]

Bad news also. Got news Yesterday that I failed the MMPI also. I took my time on it and there was a guy who took like 20 minutes. I bet he passed the darn test too. So heres to more waiting for me.

:banghead:anic::banghead:

 

[ferret123]

Bad news also. Got news Yesterday that I failed the MMPI also. I took my time on it and there was a guy who took like 20 minutes. I bet he passed the darn test too. So heres to more waiting for me.

:banghead:anic::banghead:

welcome to the thread you two!

hopefully your retaking experience will be only half as bad as the ones before you.

heres to snow days at MMAC!! :bandit:

 

[Zhaj]

Keep on waiting folks, it's been 2 months 6 days since I re-took the MMPI and still no word. Honestly, I applied so long ago and have gone past any of the apprehension of getting the job that if I heard I didn't make it, it'd just be another day I think.

 

[vmp43]

i got a call too, i failed, went to the chi pepc, im so sick of this damn process that im like i will just get another job, this is ridiculous, 500 stupid questions and I failed, and they dont tell you why.

 

[jermscentral]

i got a call too, i failed, went to the chi pepc, im so sick of this damn process that im like i will just get another job, this is ridiculous, 500 stupid questions and I failed, and they dont tell you why.

There's a perfectly legitimate and valid reason that they cannot tell you why/how you failed -- if everyone knew why they failed that particular test, then that person would be disqualified from ever taking it again for any position. If you know which questions sent up the red flags for you, then you would know how to "properly" answer them the next time, which then does not truthfully or accurately portray "you".

Even in your follow-up meeting with the psych doc, you're still not technically supposed to know the results; rather, you are just supposed to be interviewed and take the follow-up exam, after which you will be cleared or told that you did not pass it, either.

Sure, it's frustrating, but if you know the way to "beat" their test, then you've completely invalidated your results for a re-take and any future re-takes of the evaluation.

The MMPI-2 is a standard in the psychological world. The FAA uses this standard evaluation as a method of determining employment. They cannot, would not, and should not change a standard because a few people did not fit the required pattern of results to become an Air Traffic Controller.

 

[Zhaj]

In my opinion, which is just that, only an opinion, there is at least one flaw in the test. Although I gave it my absolute best effort to not "think" about the questions being answered, subconsciously I was defeated by consistency. I share this because one I believe it to be true and two I hope other people that are about to take the test can avoid falling into the same trap.

The test consists primarily of questions that hint at similar groupings. When I was in my interview I was asked why I thought I failed the test and I replied saying that I felt my answers were inconsistent on questions pertaining to social situations. They stress SO much in the beginning to make sure you don't lie that I felt it appeared like I was lying based on my wishywashyness on social aspects. Bottom line, I was perfectly "normal" on the social aspect of the test, I failed other places where I thought I answered consistently.

When the test asked me, "Do you get angry sometimes?", I said yes.

When the test asked me, "Have you ever felt like smashing something?", I said yes.

When a doctor sits down and describes how smashing something makes you appear overly hostile you think, hmm it does seem that way. But on a test where you are worried about appearing fake based on multiple speeches being given before the test I believe I interrupted them to be very very similar when in fact, one is "bad" and one is "not". Now, it may be that I did get some flags based on my reality, but after going over all of the questions in an interview I discovered over half of those flags were because I thought they were all getting at the same thing. Take half my flags away and I don't seem all that bad

I explained the best I could to the doc, but after having more time to evaluate I wish I had a better go at the interview. He was a real piece of work anyhow as well, I swear I saw him roll his eyes when I was talking

Good luck guys/gals! I hope this helps and I hope that I will be joining those who have made it over the hills to the pot of gold.

 

[swinte00]

Well, in some aspects the questions on the test were stupid.

Have you ever felt like smashing something?
I answered no because I thought about it and realized that this COULD be considered hostile.

Have you ever tortured an animal? (I swear a question similar to this is on there)
I answered no again, even though I've shot plenty of squirrels and deer and I've brutally murdered plenty of snakes in my back yard. However, this could be argued as non-torture I guess, since I had a valid reason behind it.

Either way, don't breeze through the test without THINKING about the questions first. Just don't put what you think they want to hear, because they will catch you. I personally think they should just do a polygraph instead of the MMPI-2.

 

[NortonNFriends]

I too am waiting for the results of the MMPI2. I was told 3 weeks from the day the Dr. sent it out. Well its week 5. If there were just updates such as "your file/info is en route too...." I think all would be fine. Waiting and not having anything to rest your head on is a toughie. Whats driving me nuts is all the questions at work. "When you leaving? So, you got the job? etc.... I need a new present job bad. The bosses are pulling things that wouldn't be done normally if they hadn't been contacted stating i was looking to move on.

Heres to getting shafted by your current company because of a opportunity of a life time. :insane:

 

[swinte00]

Heres to getting shafted by your current company because of a opportunity of a life time. :insane:

Hasn't happened to me yet, but I think if they get more wind of it (aside from the reference survey) I will be catching heat from it.

 

[futureatcihope]

G'day Mates, lets throw another shrimp on the barbee (austrailian accent). I called up to chicago today, only to be told that i failed the mmpi. Here is to a long summer of working at a job I can't stand, WHOO HOO!!! I guess I am not smarter than the test. I am assuming that I tried to look like the perfect candidate when I took it. On the bright side most people are not getting class dates until october anyway so hopefully when i pass the second testing I will still be on schedule to get a class date sometime after october.

 

[jdatc]

Whats driving me nuts is all the questions at work. "When you leaving? So, you got the job? etc.... I need a new present job bad. The bosses are pulling things that wouldn't be done normally if they hadn't been contacted stating i was looking to move on.

Heres to getting shafted by your current company because of a opportunity of a life time. :insane:

That might be the worst part of this whole process I think. How can they contact our employers to tell them we are switching careers and then string us along for 6-8 months longer? If you work at the grocery store or gas station it might not matter because the income is replaceable and the employers expect turnover, but in today's economic climate it makes it very very difficult with a good job to chase this dream. I had a corporate job. I told my boss he was going to be contacted by the FAA (I felt it was the proper thing to do) and he responded by moving me to the front of the line for planned layoffs. Can't blame him, why not let the guy go that is planning to leave anyway. That was early March and now I am still sitting here waiting...and waiting... doesn't seem right. They really leave us hanging and put us in a bad situation with our current jobs in the meantime. I would prefer not of course, but would be fine with sitting around waiting for the year(+) process other than getting canned as a result.

Still hoping for October.

 

[ineedatc]

That might be the worst part of this whole process I think. How can they contact our employers to tell them we are switching careers and then string us along for 6-8 months longer? If you work at the grocery store or gas station it might not matter because the income is replaceable and the employers expect turnover, but in today's economic climate it makes it very very difficult with a good job to chase this dream. I had a corporate job. I told my boss he was going to be contacted by the FAA (I felt it was the proper thing to do) and he responded by moving me to the front of the line for planned layoffs. Can't blame him, why not let the guy go that is planning to leave anyway. That was early March and now I am still sitting here waiting...and waiting... doesn't seem right. They really leave us hanging and put us in a bad situation with our current jobs in the meantime. I would prefer not of course, but would be fine with sitting around waiting for the year(+) process other than getting canned as a result.

Still hoping for October.

Well, I would have never told the current employer a darn thing. Heck, they dont send out the letter to the curent employer until they are planning to or have given you a FOL. At least that is what I have read here on JC. A whole lot in this process boggles the mind, but I dont think the Feds would purposely draw much attention to your current employer if they did not know you would be on your way to the academy. If that is the case, then that was the mistake on your part.

 

[iflycessnas05]

Well, I would have never told the current employer a darn thing. Heck, they dont send out the letter to the curent employer until they are planning to or have given you a FOL. At least that is what I have read here on JC. A whole lot in this process boggles the mind, but I dont think the Feds would purposely draw much attention to your current employer if they did not know you would be on your way to the academy. If that is the case, then that was the mistake on your part.

Well, I hope that's true, though the timing isn't accurate. They sent a letter to my then current employer right after we left the March PEPC in Chicago. I had told my boss to expect it and he had it a few days later. That was two months ago, and the FOLs haven't started flowing yet for that PEPC....

 

[futureatcihope]

Well, I hope that's true, though the timing isn't accurate. They sent a letter to my then current employer right after we left the March PEPC in Chicago. I had told my boss to expect it and he had it a few days later. That was two months ago, and the FOLs haven't started flowing yet for that PEPC....

:yeahthat:

This is correct. My current employer received two letters, one to my boss and one to my HR office. I told them ahead of time and just said that I did not have the job, and that they were just doing backround. Lucky for me they were cool about it.

 

[jdatc]

Well, I would have never told the current employer a darn thing. Heck, they dont send out the letter to the curent employer until they are planning to or have given you a FOL. At least that is what I have read here on JC. A whole lot in this process boggles the mind, but I dont think the Feds would purposely draw much attention to your current employer if they did not know you would be on your way to the academy. If that is the case, then that was the mistake on your part.

You are right about when they send out the offer letter. I told my boss a week before my PEPC (to get the time off to go to Chicago and because he was going to find out the hard way when they notified him). He got the letter the week of my PEPC.

My point is yes I got the TOL, yes I understand they have to check current employer at some time, BUT they should wait to notify current employers rather than do it and then not plan on sending you to the academy for 6-8 months (maybe longer we still don't know) knowing some employers like mine are not going to be "cool" about it.

But what do I know...I guess I am just crazy or whatever anyway.

 

[Joe28]

There's a perfectly legitimate and valid reason that they cannot tell you why/how you failed -- if everyone knew why they failed that particular test, then that person would be disqualified from ever taking it again for any position. If you know which questions sent up the red flags for you, then you would know how to "properly" answer them the next time, which then does not truthfully or accurately portray "you".

Even in your follow-up meeting with the psych doc, you're still not technically supposed to know the results; rather, you are just supposed to be interviewed and take the follow-up exam, after which you will be cleared or told that you did not pass it, either.

Sure, it's frustrating, but if you know the way to "beat" their test, then you've completely invalidated your results for a re-take and any future re-takes of the evaluation.

The MMPI-2 is a standard in the psychological world. The FAA uses this standard evaluation as a method of determining employment. They cannot, would not, and should not change a standard because a few people did not fit the required pattern of results to become an Air Traffic Controller.

That's a double-edged sword. One of the issues with this aspect of the test is... how are you supposed to pass the retake of the same exact test, when you don't even know what you did wrong in the first place? I know there were also 2 other psych tests to compare against, however, my point is very valid. I went into the retake blind, with no knowledge of why I failed it the first time and thought this was kind of weird. The psychologist told me the FAA had not even sent him results of the first test.

This section of the medical clearance, in my opinoin, needs to be revamped. A polygraph is also not the answer, and if that were to be used in conjunction with the MMPI-2... dear god. There would be a lot more complaining about wait times. I can see why the FAA is upset about the percentage of people that have failed the MMPI-2, but adding a polygraph would open up a whole other can of worms.

 

[WoH]

That's the whole point of a psych eval...you're not supposed to know. If a psychologist interviewed you and decided that you were unfit for something, do you think he would tell you why if he knew that you were just going to go to another psychologist and try to "fix" your mistake?

It's not the SATs. You can't study to pass it the second time around.

The only reason they give you a second chance is the hope that it was a fluke when you failed the first time. And since standardized tests don't work for 100% of the population, they let a human evaluate you too.

As a statistical rule, the more times you take a test, the closer you will get to "normal" or average. It's called regression towards the mean. So basically, if you fail a test the first time and take it again, chances are you'll get a more normal score the second time.

Out of all the people on JC, I've only seen one who failed the second time, so I wouldn't stress about it too much. (Sorry ferret, the following is not directed at you.) And honestly, if everyone passed the psych eval, then it wouldn't exactly be doing it's job would it?

 

[ferret123]

The psychologist told me the FAA had not even sent him results of the first test.

Thats not true..by eastern medical anyway.

we were told specifically NOT to contact our psyc until our results were sent. he probobly didnt want you to try to pressure him into seeing those results.

This section of the medical clearance, in my opinoin, needs to be revamped. A polygraph is also not the answer, and if that were to be used in conjunction with the MMPI-2... dear god. There would be a lot more complaining about wait times. I can see why the FAA is upset about the percentage of people that have failed the MMPI-2, but adding a polygraph would open up a whole other can of worms.

Very valid point. In the years that I studied towards a psychology degree, one thing that I remember quite clear was the poor reputation of our dreaded MMPI to have several issues with scoring. It passes the "average" population with no problem, but the average Joe wouldn't make a very good controller would he?

Anyway, what im trying to get at is the test itself isn't the problem; its the way it's being graded. That brings up a very interesting point...anyone heard about the contract dispute between the FAA and whoever grades the test?

 

[Zhaj]

That's the whole point of a psych eval...you're not supposed to know. If a psychologist interviewed you and decided that you were unfit for something, do you think he would tell you why if he knew that you were just going to go to another psychologist and try to "fix" your mistake?

It's not the SATs. You can't study to pass it the second time around.

The only reason they give you a second chance is the hope that it was a fluke when you failed the first time. And since standardized tests don't work for 100% of the population, they let a human evaluate you too.

As a statistical rule, the more times you take a test, the closer you will get to "normal" or average. It's called regression towards the mean. So basically, if you fail a test the first time and take it again, chances are you'll get a more normal score the second time.

Out of all the people on JC, I've only seen one who failed the second time, so I wouldn't stress about it too much. (Sorry ferret, the following is not directed at you.) And honestly, if everyone passed the psych eval, then it wouldn't exactly be doing it's job would it?

Well, if you know you failed the test the first time and walk into the exact same test with the same directions, then a few issues arise in my opinion. Although I do find your points very logical this happens to just be a sticky situation. The first issue is that if you know you failed it for any reason what-so-ever then you might be hesitant to answer questions the exact same way. For the cut and dry questions answering honestly every time is easy, but for some of the others it's not so easy. And, interpretation can easy get in the way for many people since many of the questions are very broad.

While you may be hesitant to answer the same the second time around I found it was also hard to answer differently because that might make me seem like I'm either trying curve my appearance or I'm two different people. One might say this is over thinking the test, but when you have been waiting for over 1 year through a fairly stressful process (varying on situational factors) and you are being tested for your future careers at least I found it hard to completely not think while taking the test either time. I did however try to answer honestly but that's a "loaded" thing to say from my perspective.

"Do I like mechanics magazines?"

Well, do I have a subscription? No.

Would I read one if it was one of several choices on the back of a toilet while doing my thing? Yes.

You don't have to over think that to come to a potential cross roads. I'll cut myself off here, it's obviously a touchy subject for me since I check my messages everyday waiting for my damn rep to call me back with ANY news. 2 months 10 days and counting since I RETOOK the mmpi and no word...