BillErvin
Peddling as fast as I can
The plane owner can do whatever they want.... they'll just have to self-insure.
FAA to boost Co-pilot training, avoid ATP rule
- Thread starter Two Kings
- Start date
The plane owner can do whatever they want.... they'll just have to self-insure.
Strong is the SJS with this one. CFI he will not! Learn nothing it does.
Simply put, CFI'ing with the right students was the absolute most fun I had ever had in an airplane. The wrong ones made it a chore, yes. But it wasn't about having fun. What it was about was learning about myself, and taking others mistakes and applying them to the way that I fly. It also teaches you what the airplane will handle like at the edge of the envelope, and how to react to stressful situations.
jhugz
Guppy gear swinger
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Probably won't matter as the next generation of regional/commuter aircraft seem to be turboprops from the looks of order books.
4 times the pay and 1/5th the idiots in the back. Same French Canadian technology.Aren't you flying an RJ now, disgrace...
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
500 Dual I have, much I have learned. But boring it is.
Must be instructing at a 141. I did both. 61 was WAY more fun.
Der_Meister
Well-Known Member
both 141 and 61. and yes 61 is way more fun for PPL but 141 I prefer for Inst.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
While not an ultimate predictor, total time in the past was a reasonable facsimile of the type of experience you had as a pilot (at least on the civilian track).
At 500 hours, you had 250 hours of dual given. You usually had a more senior CFI check your pre-solo/pre-checkride students. You think you're hot stuff.
At 1,000 hours, you had 750 hours of dual given. You'd made a lot of calls on soloing students, sending them for checkrides and other PIC tasks, like judgment calls on the weather, maintenence and wacko schemes from your boss. Sometime around 600 hours, you had a student try to kill you wrestling during a crosswind landing. 50 hours later a different student tried to spin you into the ground. You soiled your pants and realized you don't know nuffin' 'bout nuffin'
At 1,200 hours, you were probably competent to avoid killing yourself in a 210 flying checks. Around 1,300 hours you had to declare an emergecy and do a ILS to near zero zero because the weather the company provided was WRONG about fog. You soiled your pants again.
At 1,500 hours, you were probably the same in a Baron or 310. You'd seen 300 hours of crap weather, hand flying, weird MX breakdowns and, oh yea, wacko schemes from your boss. At 1,700 hours, the "it always does that" wandering prop govenor on the left side goes ape, and the connecting rod (on the pilot side) punches through the crank case. You soil your pants yet again while you do the VOR-B with winds at 30kts, gusting to 40. With ice.
At 1,800 hours, you were probably safe to put in the right seat of a 1900, BAe 31/32, Metroliner or similar conveyance. At 1900 hours, you and your captain are going into an outstation with questionable weather after dodging TRWs for the last hour. The company station is the "weather observer", and when you call for the conditions, they reply "what do you need?"
At 2,800-3,000 hours, you had seen enough, and made enough PIC calls to be relatively safe in the left seat of the above. You are JUST starting to realize what you don't know nuffin' about, but make allowances for it.
THIS was the path that the vast majority of pilots took. Its just the way it was. So there was a predictability about competence that was associated with a certain amount of total time. It wasn't about time, it's about soiled pants.
NOW you get a pilot who flew a G1000 equipped 172. NEVER instructed. Went from that to the right seat of a RJ. Flew right seat for 2000 hours watching the autopilot fly and never making the hard decisions. The dispatcher or CA made all the calls. Now you're dumped in the left seat. The old metrics no longer apply.
THIS is where the abinitio training breaks down. All the sim time in the world, and all the canned "events" taught by people who never saw the inside of a real cockpit, and who's major catestrophe was dropping his bag of Funions while working the sim panel DOESN'T WORK. This WILL NEVER replace the experience from making the decisions you have to make in the real word. The stuff that gives you INSIGHT as to how things really work, and how to keep your top screwed on when the chips are down.
So endeth the lesson. Now you kids get off my lawn.
Richman
At 500 hours, you had 250 hours of dual given. You usually had a more senior CFI check your pre-solo/pre-checkride students. You think you're hot stuff.
At 1,000 hours, you had 750 hours of dual given. You'd made a lot of calls on soloing students, sending them for checkrides and other PIC tasks, like judgment calls on the weather, maintenence and wacko schemes from your boss. Sometime around 600 hours, you had a student try to kill you wrestling during a crosswind landing. 50 hours later a different student tried to spin you into the ground. You soiled your pants and realized you don't know nuffin' 'bout nuffin'
At 1,200 hours, you were probably competent to avoid killing yourself in a 210 flying checks. Around 1,300 hours you had to declare an emergecy and do a ILS to near zero zero because the weather the company provided was WRONG about fog. You soiled your pants again.
At 1,500 hours, you were probably the same in a Baron or 310. You'd seen 300 hours of crap weather, hand flying, weird MX breakdowns and, oh yea, wacko schemes from your boss. At 1,700 hours, the "it always does that" wandering prop govenor on the left side goes ape, and the connecting rod (on the pilot side) punches through the crank case. You soil your pants yet again while you do the VOR-B with winds at 30kts, gusting to 40. With ice.
At 1,800 hours, you were probably safe to put in the right seat of a 1900, BAe 31/32, Metroliner or similar conveyance. At 1900 hours, you and your captain are going into an outstation with questionable weather after dodging TRWs for the last hour. The company station is the "weather observer", and when you call for the conditions, they reply "what do you need?"
At 2,800-3,000 hours, you had seen enough, and made enough PIC calls to be relatively safe in the left seat of the above. You are JUST starting to realize what you don't know nuffin' about, but make allowances for it.
THIS was the path that the vast majority of pilots took. Its just the way it was. So there was a predictability about competence that was associated with a certain amount of total time. It wasn't about time, it's about soiled pants.
NOW you get a pilot who flew a G1000 equipped 172. NEVER instructed. Went from that to the right seat of a RJ. Flew right seat for 2000 hours watching the autopilot fly and never making the hard decisions. The dispatcher or CA made all the calls. Now you're dumped in the left seat. The old metrics no longer apply.
THIS is where the abinitio training breaks down. All the sim time in the world, and all the canned "events" taught by people who never saw the inside of a real cockpit, and who's major catestrophe was dropping his bag of Funions while working the sim panel DOESN'T WORK. This WILL NEVER replace the experience from making the decisions you have to make in the real word. The stuff that gives you INSIGHT as to how things really work, and how to keep your top screwed on when the chips are down.
So endeth the lesson. Now you kids get off my lawn.
Richman
Completely disagree, especially when it comes to learning communication, crew coordination and especially when it comes to teaching instruments.
Being a CFI is really your first "captain's job".
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
Don't confuse the "monkey" skills of physically flying the airplane (as in the old quote, 'given enough bananas, even a monkey could be trained to do it') with the airmanship/judgment/decisionmaking skills which are in your brain.
The monkey skills are easily trainable. It's the airmanship that is completely portable between airframes, but can only be built with air under your butt (ergo, experience).
Commercial pilots, and airline pilots in particular, are hired for their airmanship and decisionmaking -- NOT for their monkey skills.
If you haven't yet figured out which of these two skills you're building during 1,000 hours of CFIing (which, based on your quote above, I am guessing that is true), then I think you may have missed the point. You're actually learning a wealth of very important airmanship and judgment when you CFI which will be quite applicable to a future job hauling people around in a tube of pain.
block30
Well-Known Member
Look, don't you guys see? This chap deserves a je---t! Clearly the next logical step in the profession is flight school to right seat RJ. The best part is, those who haven't instructed at all deserve that shiny jet more! I've met 'em! Silly experienced pilots. Someday you'll learn.
Oh, and a big plus one to J Train's statement. If you think CFIing is boring, 121 will bore you, too! And you will likely live in a hovel, in a crappy area, with little or no one to hang out with. If you want adventure or excitement do 135.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
I've got some really, really, REALLY bad news for you.
If you think flight instructing is boring, then an airliner cockpit is going to send you to an early grave. You'd better go and start applying for crop dusting positions, because that'll keep you alert and awake.
Flying jets is BBBBOOOORRRRIIINNNNGGGG!!!
seagull
Well-Known Member
I agree with the CFI learning process, although I think the learning curve is steepest in the first 500 hours of CFI work (for reference, I have over 3,000 dual given as a CFI, mostly part 61, but a good amount of 141 also -- not including the time I have as an OE instructor and LCA). After 500 is is less so.
However, that said, I would say that someone with a solid academic track (like Jtrain is describing is what I am meaning here) could get by with less time than someone who has not had that. I would think the ideal would be 1,000 hours of dual given for the academic track and 2,000 hours of dual for the non-academic to start making it about equivalent.
However, that said, I would say that someone with a solid academic track (like Jtrain is describing is what I am meaning here) could get by with less time than someone who has not had that. I would think the ideal would be 1,000 hours of dual given for the academic track and 2,000 hours of dual for the non-academic to start making it about equivalent.
TwoTwoLeft
o- - - - - - -l
THIS!
Amateurs soil their pants when things go bad. Pros get the job done and soil their pants on the ground.
Richman
JC’s Resident Curmudgeon
Dangit. How come the Northie says things so much more eloquently than I can?
While you guys were basking in the sun on some Florida beach, we were locked up in Minot where the snow went up to the third floor, and the only channel on the TV has "Curling Championships from Southeast Central Wisconsin".
Gives fellows plenty of time to be retrospective.
Richman
