FAA to boost Co-pilot training, avoid ATP rule

[ahsmatt7]

This isn't about 61 vs 141 or who is smarter or better coming out of whatever program (no way to show that). It is about the lack of experience and knowledge that has been allowed into the cockpits of airliners. The inevitable is that it will continue, even with the ATP rule going forward as originally planned. Knowing that, how do "we" cover the gap? Simple minded people think flying between the same 15 airports for a couple of thousand hours will suffice, it won't. What SG is suggesting is a structured program that has well thought out academic and flight training based soley on being a professional pilot, i.e. you want to work at Piedmont you have to have graduated from this course of study.

To make something like that work, the FAA needs to set a minimum standard of training and experience/flight time, while some outside agency, like the BAR association, commands even more strict guidelines and requirements.

Ahh I see. I can agree with the proposed solution. So would an institution like a Law school or medical school where a student gets extremely specialized schooling to learn a specific trait be akin to what you guys are suggesting? Like a true "flight school."

I am trying to grasp this so excuse me if I am still missing the point.

 

[jtrain609]

http://www.aabi.aero/ Is this what you are referring to?

What I'm referring to doesn't exist right now.

 

[FAYEV]

What I'm referring to doesn't exist right now.

My apologies. I thought you were talking about establishing an accreditation board.

 

[granlistillo]

What I'm referring to doesn't exist right now.

Hate to say it, but that is why pilots (even airline pilots) is not a profession in the traditional sense of the word. Professional as a descriptor yes, but as a noun-unfortunately no.

 

[Inverted25]

Hate to say it, but that is why pilots (even airline pilots) is not a profession in the traditional sense of the word. Professional as a descriptor yes, but as a noun-unfortunately no.

What profession can you get all the required licenses for in 90 days. Aviation isn't a profession because the barrier to entry doesn't exist. This is why wages are driven down. Limit entrance into the field and wages can be increased

 

[Dugie8]

I hear what you're saying, but man would conversation get dull after awhile.

Why do you assume the conversation would get boring. Does going to a collegiate 141 program automatically make one have zero interests outside of flying?

 

[Dugie8]

Ahh I see. I can agree with the proposed solution. So would an institution like a Law school or medical school where a student gets extremely specialized schooling to learn a specific trait be akin to what you guys are suggesting? Like a true "flight school."

I am trying to grasp this so excuse me if I am still missing the point.

To be honest, I don't know what it would take to make something like this work. For so long aviation has been dominated by large TT columns and not knowledge. Yes over time that knowledge comes with large TT but why put the delay in there?

It will be a tough thing to sell, just look at how people in this thread refer to pilots who went to places like UND, ERAU, Ohio, etc. There is almost this snobbish, looking down your nose at people who went to an institution vs an FBO.

 

[ahsmatt7]

To be honest, I don't know what it would take to make something like this work. For so long aviation has been dominated by large TT columns and not knowledge. Yes over time that knowledge comes with large TT but why put the delay in there?

It will be a tough thing to sell, just look at how people in this thread refer to pilots who went to places like UND, ERAU, Ohio, etc. There is almost this snobbish, looking down your nose at people who went to an institution vs an FBO.

I can see where you are coming from. However, if there was a "flight school" that was meant to be like an institution such as med school, then everyone would get a degree in whatever they wanted or something related to aviation then would have to apply and get in to said institution. At that point, every commercial pilot can't say "well I went here and so ans so so I know more than you" because every pilot would have the same knowledge background.

 

[brian.sloan]

Yea the 1500 hour rule is fine... For me the problem comes when you cant get a job as a new commercial pilot because all the "insurance" time requirements are 500tt.(not including CFI). If the gov't is going to go changing rules, why dont we change the insurance policies and let the owners of the plane decide if the new commercial pilot is suitable for their company. I would rather be flying planes across country rather than teaching some guy how to do an s-turn across the road.

-B

 

[jhugz]

Yea the 1500 hour rule is fine... For me the problem comes when you cant get a job as a new commercial pilot because all the "insurance" time requirements are 500tt.(not including CFI). If the gov't is going to go changing rules, why dont we change the insurance policies and let the owners of the plane decide if the new commercial pilot is suitable for their company. I would rather be flying planes across country rather than teaching some guy how to do an s-turn across the road.

-B

Stop being lazy, CFI for 1000 hours.

 

[Itchy]

Stop being lazy, CFI for 1000 hours.

Yeppers. No replacement for experience.

 

[Jrivera71]

So what does it mean for a newly CFI trying to get somewhere? Im not good with reading all this crap.

 

[Boris Badenov]

That you should CFI for 1000 hours?

 

[Der_Meister]

Ah yes CFI for 1000hrs, because a C-172 and a CRJ/RJ/Q400 have so much in common. Last time I checked when did you do turns around a point in a CRJ/RJ/Q400... O yes never!... While CFI'ing teaches you not to trust anyone, and build your teaching ability. it does nothing for teaching you to fly right seat in a CRJ/RJ/Q400.

 

[Dugie8]

I can see where you are coming from. However, if there was a "flight school" that was meant to be like an institution such as med school, then everyone would get a degree in whatever they wanted or something related to aviation then would have to apply and get in to said institution. At that point, every commercial pilot can't say "well I went here and so ans so so I know more than you" because every pilot would have the same knowledge background.

That is kind of my point. For "professional" flying I think there should be a stricter and more across the board standard on acceptable levels of knowledge and experience (note, not TT, EXPERIENCE).

The bolded hits on a pet peeve of mine, not saying you did it, just you posted it. I honestly do not understand the nature of pilots that requires us to be so condescending to one another and I am just as guilty. Not knowing something isn't something that should be shunned and ridiculed. It is something we all should take pride in properly correcting and point people in the correct and safe direction.

 

[dvtpilot]

Oh Mitch!

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

 

[Boris Badenov]

While CFI'ing teaches you not to trust anyone, and build your teaching ability. it does nothing for teaching you to fly right seat in a CRJ/RJ/Q400.

I can't speak for what it does for one's ability to fly in the right seat of an RJ, but every former CFI I've had as an F/O in the little-tiny-not-at-all-like-a-big-league-RJ BE400 has been superior to every F/O I've had who hadn't been a CFI. No exceptions. But of course I bow to your experience in the matter.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Ah yes CFI for 1000hrs, because a C-172 and a CRJ/RJ/Q400 have so much in common. Last time I checked when did you do turns around a point in a CRJ/RJ/Q400... O yes never!... While CFI'ing teaches you not to trust anyone, and build your teaching ability. it does nothing for teaching you to fly right seat in a CRJ/RJ/Q400.

You are absolutely wrong.

Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

 

[jhugz]

Ah yes CFI for 1000hrs, because a C-172 and a CRJ/RJ/Q400 have so much in common. Last time I checked when did you do turns around a point in a CRJ/RJ/Q400... O yes never!... While CFI'ing teaches you not to trust anyone, and build your teaching ability. it does nothing for teaching you to fly right seat in a CRJ/RJ/Q400.

Any hack can fly an RJ, even I. CFI'ing teaches you PIC decision making, go-no-go decisions, sticking up for safety, teaching/honing precision, preventing someone from killing you in a seminole or in IMC when they put you in an unusual attitude. When I get on a RJ I'm not worried about if the FO can shoot an approach with the AP, I'm worried about when abnormalities arise, is the captain flying this thing single pilot with a ballast, or will they actually be able to add input to the situation, so that the captain can make the best decision possible.

 

[BillErvin]

Ah yes CFI for 1000hrs, because a C-172 and a CRJ/RJ/Q400 have so much in common. Last time I checked when did you do turns around a point in a CRJ/RJ/Q400... O yes never!... While CFI'ing teaches you not to trust anyone, and build your teaching ability. it does nothing for teaching you to fly right seat in a CRJ/RJ/Q400.

The voice of experience