FAA to boost Co-pilot training, avoid ATP rule

Two Kings

Well-Known Member
I didn't enjoy waking up to this. From the Wall Street Journal.

FAA to Boost Co-Pilot Training

By ANDY PASZTOR

(WSJ) The Federal Aviation Administration is about to propose a minimum experience requirement for airline co-pilots that is substantially higher than current mandates but considerably below the level sought by Congress, according to industry officials and others familiar with the details.

Airlines face an aviator shortage that could be made worse by expected FAA increases in co-pilot training. Above, a pilot at San Francisco's airport.
.Proponents of the change say the proposed requirement of at least 700 or so flight hours of experience for nearly all co-pilots-rather than the 1,500 hours sought by lawmakers to boost airline safety-is essential to avoid future pilot shortages.

Expected as early as next month, the FAA proposal would pave the way for one of the biggest shifts in commercial-pilot training in decades. It would come at a time when reduced hiring of former military aviators and the looming retirement of thousands of older pilots threaten to create an industry-wide pilot shortage.
Raising co-pilot qualifications-without running afoul of congressional wishes or drastically reducing the likely pool of job applicants-is among the most difficult issues facing U.S. airlines and regulators.

An FAA spokesman declined to comment.

The FAA's proposal still could be modified or delayed by additional reviews by White House regulatory officials and lobbying efforts by industry groups.
The push for revised aviator qualifications stems from the high-profile crash of a turboprop plane near Buffalo, N.Y., in February 2009. The Colgan Air accident killed 50 people and prompted a debate over pilot training and the safety of such regional carriers.

The FAA's plan, which follows in broad outline the recommendations of an industry-labor group, would require most co-pilots to have at least 700 or so hours of experience flying smaller aircraft before they would be permitted to fly airliners, according to people familiar with the proposal. That compares with as little as 250 hours under existing FAA rules.

In a speech on Wednesday, FAA chief Randy Babbitt said agency officials are drafting the proposals based on the earlier recommendations, but he didn't elaborate.

The goal is to improve the knowledge and caliber of newly hired co-pilots, partly by giving extra flight-time credits to civilian job-seekers who graduate from four-year academic institutions or other advanced-training programs in which they study such things as aeronautics and airmanship.

Pilots leaving the military to join an airline could be eligible for even larger flight-time credits or possibly special exemptions, said people familiar with the details. By comparison, most others would need at least 1,500 hours of actual flight time to be an airline co-pilot, these people said.

The FAA's plan doesn't go as far as Congress advocated in July 2010, when it called for 1,500 hours of flying experience as an across-the-board safety minimum for all commercial pilots, including co-pilots. Airline captains already must meet that standard.

Lawmakers, however, grudgingly gave the FAA flexibility to effectively set lower flight-hour standards for co-pilots coming from enhanced training programs.
A spokeswoman for the Regional Airline Association, which represents more than two dozen carriers, declined to comment on the proposal.

If the proposal becomes final after months of public comment and further FAA deliberations, it could be a boon to universities and others that offer flight training as part of broad aviation programs.

Mike Suckow, an administrator at Purdue University's Department of Aviation Technology, said his school could accommodate a requirement of about 750 flight hours, compared with the roughly 500 hours of individual flight time and service as a flight instructor the average student currently accumulates before graduation.

But for stand-alone flight schools that offer limited academic work, the proposal could result in a sizeable drop in students. The plan "would likely drive many of those people interested in an aviation career into the academic realm," said Bob Rockmaker, president of the Flight School Association of North America.
Last October, an air-safety advisory group created by the FAA lobbed the hot potato of pilot qualifications into the lap of the FAA's Mr. Babbitt.

The group's recommendations included a flexible, sliding scale that would offer prospective co-pilots the chance to supplement their flight hours with a college degree, special jet-training courses and other proof of enhanced aeronautical knowledge.

The group also urged the FAA to require each new co-pilot to demonstrate proficiency in the specific aircraft type he or she will be assigned to fly. Currently, the FAA requires only captains to have such "type ratings" covering their knowledge of specific models, though many airlines also require co-pilots to pass the same tests.

In addition, last year's recommendations would require specific piloting skills for new hires, ranging from high-altitude aircraft handling to contending with winter weather conditions.

The increased flight-hours proposal is one of four safety initiatives the FAA is expected to release this year. Others include revamping rules intended to combat pilot fatigue; proposals to encourage mentoring of new pilots; and a broader rewrite of training practices affecting both commuter airlines and mainline carriers. All were prompted by the 2009 Colgan Air crash.

But progress on the rule-making efforts has been slow. A proposed rule intended to encourage more-experienced pilots to serve as mentors for new airline hires has been under review by the White House Office of Management and Budget since May, according to industry officials. The pilot qualification proposal has been under formal review by the same office since late June.

And white House officials have been mulling the issue of alleviating pilot fatigue for months, though they asked Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood to hold off officially submitting that package-and therefore delayed the start of a formal regulatory time clock-until August, according to people familiar with the process.

So unless you want to CFI for a few years to get 1500 hours the FAA wants to limit your options to Aviation Universities or the Military in order to be hired as an airline pilot. This is the way they avoid the pilot shortage? Ensure pilots are forced to go into severe debt at an aeronautical university? Maybe instead they could let the shortage happen and that would force airlines to improve pay and working conditions or have their planes sit on the ramp. Between this and the delayed fatigue rules it's more proof who the FAA is working for.
 
I didn't enjoy waking up to this. From the Wall Street Journal.



So unless you want to CFI for a few years to get 1500 hours the FAA wants to limit your options to Aviation Universities or the Military in order to be hired as an airline pilot. This is the way they avoid the pilot shortage? Ensure pilots are forced to go into severe debt at an aeronautical university? Maybe instead they could let the shortage happen and that would force airlines to improve pay and working conditions or have their planes sit on the ramp. Between this and the delayed fatigue rules it's more proof who the FAA is working for.

I guess I'm confused on your stance. You don't mind if Johnny-Fresh Commercial gets hired at 300/30 to fly you around?

Or I guess we can all push for user fees and ab-initio stuffs. Matter of time I guess anyway.
 
No you misunderstand. I think the 1500 hour rule should stay for everyone. I don't think that spending a fortune at a aeronautical university should buy you out of the new rule. This is a stimulus for aeronautical universities and a death knell for FBO training programs. They should keep things at a level playing field. This is a way to get around the congressional mandate and enrich aeronautical universities. I feel like this will lead to aeronautical universities being the only way to become an airline pilot and will not improve working conditions.
 
As it should be, either everyone needs a CPMEL-IA as it is now or 1,500 hrs when that becomes a requirement.

Sounds like more restrictions instead of a solution.
 
That's why it cost so much to go to an aviation university...They have to keep lobbyists on the payroll!

Oh, I thought it was the superior skills you learned that made them so expensive:D

Well, I knew it would come down to this and I think most of us did. Its a money game and thats all its ever been!
 
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I still can't see how part 141 is so much more better than part 61.
 
That's why it cost so much to go to an aviation university...They have to keep lobbyists on the payroll!

I want to not like this but it is very true. I went to UND and there are a lot of extra programs and someone was going to DC about once a month.
 
If they are going to reference Colgan on this one, I am surprised they aren't requiring that the captain be proficient too... How many rides did he bust???
 
If they are going to reference Colgan on this one, I am surprised they aren't requiring that the captain be proficient too... How many rides did he bust???

I believe it was Ian Twombly in one of the flying magazines that pointed out, BOTH crew members of Colgan exceeded the ATP requirements.
 
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I still can't see how part 141 is so much more better than part 61.

With part 141 they get every dime out of students having them sold on the idea that failing a stage check or an end of course failure is not the same as a checkride failure. Lots of fun explaining that to airline recruiters.
 
FAA to Boost Co-Pilot Training

By ANDY PASZTOR

(WSJ) The Federal Aviation Administration is about to propose a minimum experience requirement for airline co-pilots that is substantially higher than current mandates but considerably below the level sought by Congress, according to industry officials and others familiar with the details.

Airlines face an aviator shortage that could be made worse by expected FAA increases in co-pilot training. Above, a pilot at San Francisco's airport.
.Proponents of the change say the proposed requirement of at least 700 or so flight hours of experience for nearly all co-pilots-rather than the 1,500 hours sought by lawmakers to boost airline safety-is essential to avoid future pilot shortages.

The FAA's plan, which follows in broad outline the recommendations of an industry-labor group, would require most co-pilots to have at least 700 or so hours of experience flying smaller aircraft before they would be permitted to fly airliners, according to people familiar with the proposal. That compares with as little as 250 hours under existing FAA rules.

The goal is to improve the knowledge and caliber of newly hired co-pilots, partly by giving extra flight-time credits to civilian job-seekers who graduate from four-year academic institutions or other advanced-training programs in which they study such things as aeronautics and airmanship.

The group's recommendations included a flexible, sliding scale that would offer prospective co-pilots the chance to supplement their flight hours with a college degree, special jet-training courses and other proof of enhanced aeronautical knowledge.



The way I read it, sounds like any 4 year degree would be credited. Their mention of special jet-training courses or advanced training programs makes me think of CRJ transition courses. I think you would get the credit for any four year degree and then additional credit for advanced courses. But with only 700 hours as the minimum for FO, any reductions are going to bring the hours back down below the minimum of anyone hiring anyway.
 
"You mean for this 'space race', you don't want our best pilots?"
"I didn't say that. We want the best pilots that...we can get."
 
If this shortage really happens I think what we'll see is the airlines offer scholarships to get people trained rather than increased pay. They'll offer to pay a good portion of your training at a four year university with a requirement to repay if you some how flunk out or leave early. Basically we'll send you to school but you're our slave until we've made money off you.

If you go to the page of the actual article there's an interesting graph from the ALPA about legacy retirements. A quick estimate of adding the bars up tells me around 10,000 pilots over the next 9 years. Lets hope those jobs stay at mainline.
 
[video]http://online.wsj.com/video/faa-boosting-co-pilot-training-hours/0A36AE0E-596B-4EC5-9EBE-BC9F89B62956.html[/video]
 
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