Envoy CRJ700 climb airspeed

Autothrust Blue said:
Of course.

My point was The Man wants his airplane operated his way.
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You know I'm all for this. Operate the airplane like your company wants it to be flown. Yes. But that is being thrown around a lot lately, and lets not quash questioning and critical thinking with "that's how it's done because I said so". That is the antithesis of learning, education and what we as professionals should strive for.
If someone doesn't understand why we do something the way we do it it's better to explain than because I said so, OR there's a possibility they might have an idea that could be better or even if that idea isn't better, if it gets you thinking, well that's how a lot of innovation comes about. Critical thinking.

Just a little rant that may or may not be justified.
 
genot said:
Ask Envoy and only Envoy and its always over 300. The only thing that I won't ask about speeds when Envoy is number 2 departing is an L-1011. Its the only civilian aircraft I've worked that will no doubt out run their CRJ's in the climb. Does anyone know why they're the outlier?
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All discussions aside. I was not aware eagle was the only CRJ-700 operator that climbed out at over 300kts. That's just the way the capts flew.

As to why, you'll probably have to go back to the initial cadre CRJ pilots at Eagle when eagle first got them. They were all senior, waiting for their turn to flow to AA when it came to a halt after 9/11. These guys were pretty nonstandard and pretty much flew barber pole everywhere - from their turboprop habits flying jetstreams, metros, whatever eagle flew at the time when they were the separate airlines. They flew the crj the same way.

So there is a lot of pilots left who flew with these guys that still fly fast (300+) but not right at the barber pole-1.

Now that the senior group of pilots are gone over to be AA's problem, the capts left there now flying are more conventional and standard

As far as I know most folks fly 250 to 10k, 2.5 nose up pitch to the low 20's and accept the resulting climb rate and airspeed whatever it ends up being. We' werent targeting a specific airspeed other than over 300 in the climb in the mid-to high- teens.

Switchover to .79 climb. cruise power set on the cyan donuts which results in .83 cruise everywhere.

You'll probably also find eagle CRJs to be faster if they're #1 on approach. The modus operandi is 230kts to about 1800ft -2000ft AGL. then flaps 1, 8, 20 and gear to slow and the remaining flaps out on schedule as the aircraft slows to arrive at Vapp by 1000ft AGL

Apu on and two engine taxi on the ground. Anything to waste fuel.

Plus every captain has a fuel score on how much fuel they are saving by being fuel efficient. Every crj captain I have flown with at eagle was working on getting the worst score possible.
 
Probably more like, don't really care. Especially when those senior captains were TDY'ed to Chicago when the DFW CRJ base closed.... No gate? sit in penalty box with both engines and APU running the whole time. another captain who wouldn't drop the brake until D+1 and wouldn't block in until after A+14. After he got hauled in the CP's office, he told the CP straight up, "I don't care."

I don't know if it any of this actually does anything to the company's bottom line. probably nothing.

I do know that the VP Technical has asked around why compliance for flex/reduced thrust takeoffs on Eagle's CRJs are less than 50% where compliance is almost over 99% on Eagle's EMB-145's. If it was a mx /FCF / repo or test flight, it almost always took off full power.

If you put in OAT for the flex temp, the N1 indicator will still indicate a FLEX thrust setting, but the engine is still doing a full power takeoff - as one captain told me when I asked him about it - "I am following the letter of law, but not the spirit."
 
BWER said:
All I know is that if I slap 250 on a WN climbing...he will out climb just about anyone else.
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If you're giving a speed in a climb, then it comes down to aircraft performance and not an individual pilot. Everyone is going to do that the same.
 
Ozelot said:
I always ask SKW CRJ2 guys their planned climb out speed when they are leading the pack. Than adjust accordingly. Those boys like to go slow for some reason, must be a company thing.
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Anecdotal, but I heard from a LCA that when they first got the CRJ, everyone would fly fast. Mach .80+, 500fpm most of the time above 10,000'. This was, perhaps, why the bean counters came to lament the economics of the 200.

Now, we are encouraged to fly the CI and this allegedly yields a makes the 200 much more viable.

But like I said, purely hearsay. Seems reasonable enough though. I'd be interested to see how other 200 operators fly the airplane.
 
I found that there was a noticeably higher burn when I flew the CRJ-200 fast to "catch up," but flying it via the LRC charts (typically somewhere around 250/.66-.68) and it was a very noticeable reduced overall trip burn.

Oddly enough, with the "tactical" CI that we use at DL, I've been able to compare econ speeds vs. "peel the paint" speed at 340/.80 on the 320/319. I swear it burns less the faster you go. It does run the hot section harder, so I'm assuming there is that factor that you're fighting against.
 
BWER said:
All I know is that if I slap 250 on a WN climbing...he will out climb just about anyone else.
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I know a guy who's a sim instructor over there, and from what he's told me it's pretty typical climbing out of ~5000 for the PNF to ask the PF if he/she "wants the good stuff" and selecting non-reduced climb thrust (apologies to any Boeing drivers here for incorrect terminology).
 
woodreau said:
All discussions aside. I was not aware eagle was the only CRJ-700 operator that climbed out at over 300kts. That's just the way the capts flew.

As to why, you'll probably have to go back to the initial cadre CRJ pilots at Eagle when eagle first got them. They were all senior, waiting for their turn to flow to AA when it came to a halt after 9/11. These guys were pretty nonstandard and pretty much flew barber pole everywhere - from their turboprop habits flying jetstreams, metros, whatever eagle flew at the time when they were the separate airlines. They flew the crj the same way.

So there is a lot of pilots left who flew with these guys that still fly fast (300+) but not right at the barber pole-1.

Now that the senior group of pilots are gone over to be AA's problem, the capts left there now flying are more conventional and standard

As far as I know most folks fly 250 to 10k, 2.5 nose up pitch to the low 20's and accept the resulting climb rate and airspeed whatever it ends up being. We' werent targeting a specific airspeed other than over 300 in the climb in the mid-to high- teens.

Switchover to .79 climb. cruise power set on the cyan donuts which results in .83 cruise everywhere.

You'll probably also find eagle CRJs to be faster if they're #1 on approach. The modus operandi is 230kts to about 1800ft -2000ft AGL. then flaps 1, 8, 20 and gear to slow and the remaining flaps out on schedule as the aircraft slows to arrive at Vapp by 1000ft AGL

Apu on and two engine taxi on the ground. Anything to waste fuel.

Plus every captain has a fuel score on how much fuel they are saving by being fuel efficient. Every crj captain I have flown with at eagle was working on getting the worst score possible.
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Great reply and thank you. Eagle/Envoy is absolutely the only operator of the aircraft that flies like that. If one of their CRJ's are involved I'm far more concerned about the MD-80 in trail not holding the speed in the pack.
 
JeppUpdater said:
I know a guy who's a sim instructor over there, and from what he's told me it's pretty typical climbing out of ~5000 for the PNF to ask the PF if he/she "wants the good stuff" and selecting non-reduced climb thrust (apologies to any Boeing drivers here for incorrect terminology).
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For a more efficient climb, "wanting the good stuff" is what you should do from the get go. Max climb thrust instead of CL 1 or CL 2 makes a big difference unless you're expecting a hold down. It used to drive me nuts flying with the occasional guy that would let it sit in derated climb when we were planning to be more or less altitude unrestricted

You'd think the most experienced 737 operator in the world would know that. ;)
 
BWER said:
All I know is that if I slap 250 on a WN climbing...he will out climb just about anyone else.
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My rule of thumb on them is they climb like a fighter with external stores and they REALLY try and help the flow, but goodness are they needy. I descended you to 1,000 AGL, why on God's green earth are you asking about the sequence? Yes everyone but the paying passengers know you're looking for an excuse to roll throttles to idle and glide in to final. Yes you do that as you level at 5,000 which is precisely why I wait to clear you till you're at 4,500.

No professional dislike towards SWA, but the pizza rumors would die a violent death if every airline pilot spent roughly 40 seconds in the halls of an ATC facility.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
For a more efficient climb, "wanting the good stuff" is what you should do from the get go. Max climb thrust instead of CL 1 or CL 2 makes a big difference unless you're expecting a hold down.
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It all depends what the metric is. Fuel efficient? Sure. Engine efficient? Not so much so. Power by the hour costs? No way in hell.
 
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