Envoy CRJ700 climb airspeed

Gonzo said:
Ah, so it is a standup that isn't really a standup. We had/have a few of those at Eagle.

Why? I have done 250 to the maker and still had not problem meeting stabilized approach criteria. Now they just changed our stabilized criteria and I will not be able to do it any more.
Click to expand...

We are to be stabilized by 1,000' AFE. 250 to the marker gives you 20 kts to scrub before flaps, but really who the heck puts the damn flaps out at redline every time? So really it's more like 30 kts. So flaps 1/8/20, gear down, flaps 30/45.

Not a lot of margin there, but that's just me. I've seen so many people, with considerably more experience than me, screw this up enough that I hate it. I have to sit there wondering how badly they're going to jack it up, and for what reason? To show how awesome you are by trying to save 5 secs? So I have to sit there and wonder if they're going to make it, call unstabilized, go around, etc.? Totally unnecessary.

Now the Brasilia, that was a different story and different stabilization criteria.
 
X-Forces said:
Barber pole minus 1 knot??

No, Barber pole minus 0 knots!! Slacker! :D

(If you're not clacking, you're slacking)

20130317_201544_zpsf8etifpi.jpg
Click to expand...

It won't actually make any noise until you hit the first black section of the raster. There's a 5 know buffer in there.
#askmehowiknow
 
BobDDuck said:
It won't actually make any noise until you hit the first black section of the raster. There's a 5 know buffer in there.
#askmehowiknow
Click to expand...

Then you have to exit the last red (bottom) for 4 seconds before it stops. That's why you can't "get just one clack."
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Oh man, I haven't seen that image in 3 years. Brought back some good memories. That thing was home for 4.5 years :)
Click to expand...

Yeah, I had to dig into my photo archive to find this one, but I knew I had it. It was home for 3 year for me, and there were some good times.

Sometimes brings a tear to my eye as I'm trolling over the Atlantic, or across the entire U.S. in the bus at .78
(Then again, I like the difference in paychecks ;))
 
SpiceWeasel said:
You wouldn't notice it at all. Nice try though.
Click to expand...

Yes, people do notice. They just don't say anything because it's expected from "them damn inexperienced little jet pilots."

Personally, I love hearing it when I say goodbye to the passengers a little "that was one of the smoothest flights I've ever had." It's no different than rolling in 1500-2500 fpm all at once, vs. rolling it in slow. They DO notice. When I'm in back, I can tell how they are flying. Or putting the airplane in speed mode with a HUGE trend vector, and the airplane either dives for it, or pitches up for it abruptly. I brief before departure that I'll call for "Pitch mode, NAV/HDG mode because this -b- is going to hunt for the damn speed!" It requires only slightly more work on my part, but makes the people in the back not notice the airplane hunting for a speed. As well, the speed may fluctuate a few knots more, but it makes for a better ride. Slowing 80-100 knots in about 15-30 seconds is GOING to be noticed by the people in the back. That's how guys in the pt91 environment end up looking for work again, by not being smooth.
 
I disagree.

I'm not talking about if it's possible, or that its "crazy". I'm saying people notice. Bottom line, it's not as smooth.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Now you gotta use the ghetto speed brakes (gear) if you want to do that.
Click to expand...

Dangling the dunlops is one of the best speedbrakes out there.... amirite, @Derg ? :)

crfguy51 said:
I disagree.

I'm not talking about if it's possible, or that its "crazy". I'm saying people notice. Bottom line, it's not as smooth.
Click to expand...

You can be smooth and run high speed/efficiency. Expand your view.

They might notice that the gear comes out earlier, but that is required frequently on slam dunks on the very clean aircraft that I fly now. Idle power at 250 knots only gets you 1200 fpm. Slats only get you an extra 100 feet per minute (but you have to slow below 220 knots, thus sacrificing leveling off), boards get you about 300.

The equivalent of what the CRJ guys are talking about doing is similar to a normal approach for me fighting to get fifi on a routine slam dunk into a stabilized path.
 
mshunter said:
Yes, people do notice. They just don't say anything because it's expected from "them damn inexperienced little jet pilots."

Personally, I love hearing it when I say goodbye to the passengers a little "that was one of the smoothest flights I've ever had." It's no different than rolling in 1500-2500 fpm all at once, vs. rolling it in slow. They DO notice. When I'm in back, I can tell how they are flying. Or putting the airplane in speed mode with a HUGE trend vector, and the airplane either dives for it, or pitches up for it abruptly. I brief before departure that I'll call for "Pitch mode, NAV/HDG mode because this -b- is going to hunt for the damn speed!" It requires only slightly more work on my part, but makes the people in the back not notice the airplane hunting for a speed. As well, the speed may fluctuate a few knots more, but it makes for a better ride. Slowing 80-100 knots in about 15-30 seconds is GOING to be noticed by the people in the back. That's how guys in the pt91 environment end up looking for work again, by not being smooth.
Click to expand...
They might notice, but if you're cheaper on kayak they'll still fly with you again.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Slats only get you an extra 100 feet per minute (but you have to slow below 220 knots, thus sacrificing leveling off), boards get you about 300.
Click to expand...

That's it? I knew the bus was slick but I assumed the boards gave you more than 300 fpm. Our slats (out at 280) give us about 800 fpm and the gear (out at 300 if needed) gives us probably another 600 fpm. The big drag comes in with 13 or 18 degrees of flaps. With 40 degrees we can do a 1:1 at about 170 knots. Fun stuff.

That said, an approach like that, while smooth, is noisy.
 
BobDDuck said:
That's it? I knew the bus was slick but I assumed the boards gave you more than 300 fpm. Our slats (out at 280) give us about 800 fpm and the gear (out at 300 if needed) gives us probably another 600 fpm. The big drag comes in with 13 or 18 degrees of flaps. With 40 degrees we can do a 1:1 at about 170 knots. Fun stuff.

That said, an approach like that, while smooth, is noisy.
Click to expand...

Yep! It's virtually the same drag profile as the 757 and 767. Until you really get the flaps hanging out there, they are lift devices only. Boards mostly make noise but you've got to use them (they might give you 500 fpm depending)... if you don't, you'll be in another state before you get down! The exception is into JFK with the overhead pattern.... that's the only place that runs me around enough where I can get away with just floating down.

I flew the maddog for a bit (same wing that you're working with)- it was very similar to the CRJ in regard to flaps and drag (just as you described). We gotta get you on the big birds! :)
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
Dangling the dunlops is one of the best speedbrakes out there.... amirite, @Derg ? :)



You can be smooth and run high speed/efficiency. Expand your view.

They might notice that the gear comes out earlier, but that is required frequently on slam dunks on the very clean aircraft that I fly now. Idle power at 250 knots only gets you 1200 fpm. Slats only get you an extra 100 feet per minute (but you have to slow below 220 knots, thus sacrificing leveling off), boards get you about 300.

The equivalent of what the CRJ guys are talking about doing is similar to a normal approach for me fighting to get fifi on a routine slam dunk into a stabilized path.
Click to expand...

You are correct, sir.

At the end of the day, you're not really getting down until you're 170, gear down, flaps 3.
 
PeanuckleCRJ said:
I flew the maddog for a bit (same wing that you're working with)- it was very similar to the CRJ in regard to flaps and drag (just as you described). We gotta get you on the big birds! :)
Click to expand...

Hard to give up 3 days off a month plus home every night. Also, too junior to hold it right now anyway AND seat locked for another 6 months.
 
Derg said:
You are correct, sir.

At the end of the day, you're not really getting down until you're 170, gear down, flaps 3.
Click to expand...

It's one thing to do that out of necessity, as I'd imagine many of us have on numerous occasions. It's another thing to be frantically throwing everything out at the marker, due to a decision to fly 250 kt to the FAF. I've never heard any approach controller request this (I have heard LAX ask for 250 as long as possible, which is different).

The folks I've flown with that I hope to emulate when I upgrade definitely don't do crap like this. They make flights drama free and paperwork free, and I certainly do my best to reciprocate. Also, my company recently released FOQA data that has shown desperate slow down tactics on approaches are not turning out well...
 
GypsyPilot said:
It's one thing to do that out of necessity, as I'd imagine many of us have on numerous occasions. It's another thing to be frantically throwing everything out at the marker, due to a decision to fly 250 kt to the FAF. I've never heard any approach controller request this (I have heard LAX ask for 250 as long as possible, which is different).

The folks I've flown with that I hope to emulate when I upgrade definitely don't do crap like this. They make flights drama free and paperwork free, and I certainly do my best to reciprocate. Also, my company recently released FOQA data that has shown desperate slow down tactics on approaches are not turning out well...
Click to expand...
"well poop..... S-turns?"

lol.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top