Endeavor ALPA to publish delinquent dues'rs

That's pretty normal.

Consider yourselves lucky. My employer will fire you if you're dues delinquent for a long period of time.

Publishing a list of people who aren't paying their dues pales in comparison to unemployment.
Don't pay your dues for a while = termination.

Land at the wrong airport = Whoa, guys. Let's try to understand what happened.




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That's pretty normal.

Consider yourselves lucky. My employer will fire you if you're dues delinquent for a long period of time.

Publishing a list of people who aren't paying their dues pales in comparison to unemployment.

I'm completely confused....why would Delta Airlines the corporation fire a pilot for a union dues issue ?
 
I'm completely confused....why would Delta Airlines the corporation fire a pilot for a union dues issue ?

It's in the FOM. Completely serious.

Many (most?) airlines have the same thing.

Don't be one of the guys that dances the dance in the interview and then gets off probation, wants to disregard the Terms and Conditions you agreed to when you accepted the job.
 
Either you pay dues or contract administration fees.

Either… Or.

And that's good. You don't have to be a member of the union, but you're sure in hell going to pay your fair part for the benefits and protections of having one.

I believe each LEC publishes a list of non-members, or at least they did for a period of time.
 
No....not trying to play dumb. First off...I'm on the auto deduct program so last I checked I've always been in good standing.

It just seems like most airlines fight NOT to have their employees unionize. Then when the employees are successful at unionizing, it would seem out of place for management to penalize a pilot for not paying union dues to a union they didn't want anyway.

Unless the hiring and firing of pilots doesn't get to that 'pay grade level.' Meaning those who would do the firing of said pilot are union members themselves.
 
And for the record Derg...I'm not one of those guys. I support ALPA and what they do. But I'm trying to clarify the management/union relationship and how that jives with hiring and firing a pilot.
 
It just seems like most airlines fight NOT to have their employees unionize. Then when the employees are successful at unionizing, it would seem out of place for management to penalize a pilot for not paying union dues to a union they didn't want anyway.

Management doesn't like lots of things that are in the CBA, but they have to follow them, just like the pilots do. Agency shop clauses are a no cost item to the company so they look petty trying to keep it out of the CBA. Once they are in there, the company has to follow the clause and terminate guys who fall into bad standing with the union.
 
No....not trying to play dumb. First off...I'm on the auto deduct program so last I checked I've always been in good standing.

It just seems like most airlines fight NOT to have their employees unionize. Then when the employees are successful at unionizing, it would seem out of place for management to penalize a pilot for not paying union dues to a union they didn't want anyway.

Unless the hiring and firing of pilots doesn't get to that 'pay grade level.' Meaning those who would do the firing of said pilot are union members themselves.

Well, it's perspective. A collective bargaining agreement not only protects the pilot from the company… it also protects the company from the pilot.

I have a stipulation, again, which I agreed to when I took the job and gave tacit approval to by not resigning when the language changed, that if I'm not in good financial standing, I can be terminated. If a bill collector starts calling my employer, they have the option after counseling me, of terminating my employment.

If you don't want to work for a union company, do not apply for a union company. If your company votes in a union and you feel that it's unacceptable, you have the right to either (a) self-terminate employment, (b) not be a member but pay contract administration fees or (*c) if there are enough co-workers that feel the same, start a drive to decertify the union and/or replace it with another collective bargaining agent.

*(more or less)

We really can't "a la carte" which policies we follow and which ones we do not because of mere philosophical differences.
 
And for the record Derg...I'm not one of those guys. I support ALPA and what they do. But I'm trying to clarify the management/union relationship and how that jives with hiring and firing a pilot.

Think about your deed in a neighborhood with a Homeowners Association.

I knowingly moved into a neighborhood with an HOA with monthly fees.

Now if I have a problem with the HOA, split my association with the HOA and stop paying fees, I'm still bound to the terms of the neighborhood.

I agreed to that if I have chronic violations or go into bad standing with the fees that I agreed to pay when I purchased my home, they can attach liens on my home.

and so on.
 
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."
 
When some wild-eyed, eight-foot-tall maniac grabs your neck, taps the back of your favorite head up against the barroom wall, and he looks you crooked in the eye and he asks you if ya paid your dues, you just stare that big sucker right back in the eye, and you remember what ol' Jack Burton always says at a time like that: "Have ya paid your dues, Jack?" "Yessir, the check is in the mail."
I know this is a joke but many people think this is how dues are collected to those who have not paid. It could not be further from the truth. We have a system in which people are notified of their outstanding payments. Sometimes people cannot make the payments for numerous reasons. There are many ways to get people back into good standing with various payment programs. Basically, if you make an effort so will the people who help represent you.
 
This topic has had me thinking since I first saw it on one of the hotlines. Other carriers have knowingly done this in the past, and as Derg said, many carriers will literally fire you once you hit a certain point in the delinquency scale. The MEC has given, what, a month heads up that this was going to start? It's not like it can be called a "surprise". It seems that those that are ticked off are the ones that may see their name (meaning they are aware they are delinquent). That's understandable, to a point. Whether you love or hate ALPA, it was part of the job when you showed up. If you showed up at any carrier and it was non-unionized and then DID unionize, be it ALPA, IBT, or "In House", all have the option of only paying shop fees. Slightly lower dues rate, slightly fewer privileges (such as voting rights). Unions in this industry are a necessary evil. Any union will have it's issues and have members that are dissatisfied, but the gains typically outweigh the cost. The 1.9% you pay is a very cheap insurance policy.

Whether you have a medical issue (Aeromedical) or a backstop to management whims (contract), the 1.9% is a small price to pay, but you have to pay to play. Most pilots will lose their medical at least once in their career (statistically speaking) and Aeromedical is awesome. At a time when your medical costs rise and income drops, you won't get a bill from Aeromedical. Think about what management has tried to ram down the throats of pilots, without a union, it wouldn't be a dicussion. Look at what as happened at B6 and medical costs, they skyrocketed (well over 1.9%) and nothing could be done (legally) to stop it. The union needs money and willing volunteers to operate. Nobody will force you to volunteer, but the costs are known, and a requirement of the job.

To that effect, there are different levels of delinquency. If you are paying back dues that either were not taken out at all for a period of time OR not enough were taken from the previous year, but are actively paying to get caught up, NO- the name shouldn't be posted. Some folks are FAR beyond that point though, and won't pay up willingly. Names to everyone is the union providing peer pressure, technically the next step would be termination. So, peer pressure to start paying, or lose your job. Some have said they can't get the issue fixed, believe me, if you call up membership services and want to pay money- THEY WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN QUICKLY. 888-FLY-ALPA.
 
This topic has had me thinking since I first saw it on one of the hotlines. Other carriers have knowingly done this in the past, and as Derg said, many carriers will literally fire you once you hit a certain point in the delinquency scale. The MEC has given, what, a month heads up that this was going to start? It's not like it can be called a "surprise". It seems that those that are ticked off are the ones that may see their name (meaning they are aware they are delinquent). That's understandable, to a point. Whether you love or hate ALPA, it was part of the job when you showed up. If you showed up at any carrier and it was non-unionized and then DID unionize, be it ALPA, IBT, or "In House", all have the option of only paying shop fees. Slightly lower dues rate, slightly fewer privileges (such as voting rights). Unions in this industry are a necessary evil. Any union will have it's issues and have members that are dissatisfied, but the gains typically outweigh the cost. The 1.9% you pay is a very cheap insurance policy.

Whether you have a medical issue (Aeromedical) or a backstop to management whims (contract), the 1.9% is a small price to pay, but you have to pay to play. Most pilots will lose their medical at least once in their career (statistically speaking) and Aeromedical is awesome. At a time when your medical costs rise and income drops, you won't get a bill from Aeromedical. Think about what management has tried to ram down the throats of pilots, without a union, it wouldn't be a dicussion. Look at what as happened at B6 and medical costs, they skyrocketed (well over 1.9%) and nothing could be done (legally) to stop it. The union needs money and willing volunteers to operate. Nobody will force you to volunteer, but the costs are known, and a requirement of the job.

To that effect, there are different levels of delinquency. If you are paying back dues that either were not taken out at all for a period of time OR not enough were taken from the previous year, but are actively paying to get caught up, NO- the name shouldn't be posted. Some folks are FAR beyond that point though, and won't pay up willingly. Names to everyone is the union providing peer pressure, technically the next step would be termination. So, peer pressure to start paying, or lose your job. Some have said they can't get the issue fixed, believe me, if you call up membership services and want to pay money- THEY WILL MAKE IT HAPPEN QUICKLY. 888-FLY-ALPA.
What he said!
 
I will say that ALPA membership services are pretty good about getting a plan in place to get you caught up. The company under reported my income to ALPA one year. After a reconcilliation, I owed something to the tune of 1500 bucks more than I had deducted. A few forms and phone calls later I was on a payment plan to knock off the extra 1500. It wasn't my fault and they were very understanding and didn't expect me to pay it all up front.
 
That's the agency shop clause that I'm sure is in your contract.

Oh I know, I'm just saying. IBT is pitbull-ish about this too, our local is known to go out of they're way to try to burn guys on this even if you use the RO option. I know a couple guys that had to battle to keep they're job, if you are a RO, you required to prove that you donated what you would have paid in dues to charity IIRC.
 
Oh I know, I'm just saying. IBT is pitbull-ish about this too, our local is known to go out of they're way to try to burn guys on this even if you use the RO option. I know a couple guys that had to battle to keep they're job, if you are a RO, you required to prove that you donated what you would have paid in dues to charity IIRC.
Yes, that is an option as well with ALPA. I have helped two people so far do that instead of pay the dues dollars to ALPA. It is not hard to show how much you have donated and after walking them through the process the first time it has yet to become an issue. While I fully support organized labor and have participated within my organization I do not like the tactics of going after people. I am not a bill collector. However, I am not opposed to having the names listed so the others who do pay their dues can confront them on a peer level. I think facing your contemporaries and explaining why you are not pulling your weight is more demoralizing then having people behind the scenes go after you.
 
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